Review of final sound 1000i and how ESL's work

[Cherian]

Ok, I know this is a review of the Final sound 1000i and not MLs. However it has a easy to understand animation of how ESLs work.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/final-sound-1000i-speakers-8-2007-part-1.html

 

[sleepysurf]

Interesting review. I'd like to see how some ML distortion measurements compare.

 

[JonFo]

Interesting review. I'd like to see how some ML distortion measurements compare.

Alan, funny you should ask You just got to hear this in person a few weeks ago.

When I built my Center Channel I measured the sum of the SL3/Mid-bass array AND Sub, all together, they have less than 0.6% THD (broadband). Read that again, together

Click here for the measurement from the SL3XC.

The SL3 panel alone should be well under 0.5%.

Note that Final panel alone, at 1Khz is at 0.5%, and with that sub, a broadband measurement would would be well above 2% THD.

 

[sleepysurf]

Yeah, I *know* your SL3XC measures superb, as I'm sure your entire setup does.

I was just wondering, in an apples to apples comparison, how the Final 1000i's + Sub(s) objectively compare to the Vantage's or Summit's. I've read the subjective comments posted here about the Finals, but unless that same hometheaterhifi reviewer gets a pair of ML's (or S'phile does a comparative review with measurements), guess we'll never know.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Yeah, I *know* your SL3XC measures superb, as I'm sure your entire setup does.

I was just wondering, in an apples to apples comparison, how the Final 1000i's + Sub(s) objectively compare to the Vantage's or Summit's. I've read the subjective comments posted here about the Finals, but unless that same hometheaterhifi reviewer gets a pair of ML's (or S'phile does a comparative review with measurements), guess we'll never know.

Maybe TonePub can do it for us! He owns his Summit's and would only need to get a pair of Finals for comparison! Hint, hint...

 

[jtwrace]

Maybe TonePub can do it for us! He owns his Summit's and would only need to get a pair of Finals for comparison! Hint, hint...

Tonepub has Summits, Final 600i & Final 1000i's. I have a pair of 1000i's now.

 

[tonepub]

Yes I do have 600i's and 1000i's here right now. There will be a full review online in about two weeks, but the short story is:

The Final sound speakers are a very different flavor of Electrostatic
panel...

The closest I can describe them is that they sound very similar to my old
Acoustats or even Quad 57's. They are a very mellow speaker compared
to the Summits or Vantages.

I was not very fond of their sub, and would call it more of a home theater sub. For a thousand bucks it's ok, but I would probably go with the ACI titan.
I had great results just running them full range and using the REL B2 crossed over at about 38hz.

They were very pleasing but did not have the dynamics or resolution of the Summits. I know I may be biased, but I had the Finals here for three months before I got the Vantages, so I could have easily pulled the plug on the ML speakers if I would have preferred them.

The one thing the Final does incredibly well is coherence. The Summits go down to about 200hz before crossing over to the woofer, but the Finals go all the way down and just roll off at about 40hz.

Don't get me wrong, the Final is still a good speaker, I just don't think they are as close to being a "do everything" speaker like the Vantage or Summit. However, some people will find the current ML speakers "too forward" or "over detailed". For those people I would definitely tell them to check out the finals, specifically the big ones.

The Final is a somewhat easier speaker to drive and works with anything.

I saw the Final as more of a speaker like my McIntosh 275 amplifier. It is not the last word in dynamics, extension or imaging, but almost everything sounds great when played through it. I did not find them anywhere near as exciting as the Summits, but they are a very freindly speaker. And they look really cool too.

Honestly, Ive never heard a panel speaker I didn't like in one way or another. I guess I just like the Summit and Vantage so much, it's hard to get blown away by the others.

But as with anything, you need to find the flavor YOU like. You may hear the finals and think I'm nuts, that you like that a lot better. I'd say listen to both and I guarantee you will walk away really preferring one over the other.

I hope that helps.....

 

[jtwrace]

Yes I do have 600i's and 1000i's here right now. There will be a full review online in about two weeks, but the short story is:

The Final sound speakers are a very different flavor of Electrostatic
panel...

The closest I can describe them is that they sound very similar to my old
Acoustats or even Quad 57's. They are a very mellow speaker compared
to the Summits or Vantages.

I was not very fond of their sub, and would call it more of a home theater sub. For a thousand bucks it's ok, but I would probably go with the ACI titan.
I had great results just running them full range and using the REL B2 crossed over at about 38hz.

They were very pleasing but did not have the dynamics or resolution of the Summits. I know I may be biased, but I had the Finals here for three months before I got the Vantages, so I could have easily pulled the plug on the ML speakers if I would have preferred them.

The one thing the Final does incredibly well is coherence. The Summits go down to about 200hz before crossing over to the woofer, but the Finals go all the way down and just roll off at about 40hz.

Don't get me wrong, the Final is still a good speaker, I just don't think they are as close to being a "do everything" speaker like the Vantage or Summit. However, some people will find the current ML speakers "too forward" or "over detailed". For those people I would definitely tell them to check out the finals, specifically the big ones.

The Final is a somewhat easier speaker to drive and works with anything.

I saw the Final as more of a speaker like my McIntosh 275 amplifier. It is not the last word in dynamics, extension or imaging, but almost everything sounds great when played through it. I did not find them anywhere near as exciting as the Summits, but they are a very freindly speaker. And they look really cool too.

Honestly, Ive never heard a panel speaker I didn't like in one way or another. I guess I just like the Summit and Vantage so much, it's hard to get blown away by the others.

But as with anything, you need to find the flavor YOU like. You may hear the finals and think I'm nuts, that you like that a lot better. I'd say listen to both and I guarantee you will walk away really preferring one over the other.

I hope that helps.....

This is a perfect example of get what YOU like. I've owned Summits and now have 1000i's and to me there is no comparison. I find the 1000i much more transparent and much more like the "real" thing. I've been to some of the best theaters in the country. These speakers reproduce the music better then anything that I've heard to date. In my opinion I've heard A LOT of properly setup equipment. These truly blow me away. I'm waiting for my new amps, transport and Sub to be complete. I can't wait because they will only get better....

 

[[email protected]]

"You like/I Like"

This is a perfect example of get what YOU like. I've owned Summits and now have 1000i's and to me there is no comparison. I find the 1000i much more transparent and much more like the "real" thing. I've been to some of the best theaters in the country. These speakers reproduce the music better then anything that I've heard to date. In my opinion I've heard A LOT of properly setup equipment. These truly blow me away. I'm waiting for my new amps, transport and Sub to be complete. I can't wait because they will only get better....

As I have posted before, I run several separate electrostatic systems, one 2-channel with Summits, analogue only with tube front end and amps. The other a five channel all Final solid state for watching film.

As noted by others the Finals are entirely of one cloth, the single voicing without crossovers is a great advantage in comprehending dialogue, decoded from 5-channel DTS.

The all tube analog Summits are a whole other world though. Here is true "transparency" and much more music detail, the finest filigree of room and space around instruments and voices. Here there is no doubt that there is NEVER too much detail, all of it serves to get to the heart of the matter: to slip into hall where music without electronics is performed in front of an engaged audience.

In my mind only the best of analog approaches that experience, whereas DTS or other digital encoded movie sound tracks are nothing but elaborate effects.

I have on occasion dragged the Finals into my music room, but never found any of the high end detail in them needed to approach the above life concert effect. The Summits run circles around them, in dynamics as well.

However when it comes to home theatre, the Finals are just what one needs to represent the fragmented nature of most sound tracks. A good sub is a neccesity, in my case I use a Descent.

It is for these reasons that I use these different approaches in ELS design and why I would never consider to combine the two systems into one room.

 

[jtwrace]

The all tube analog Summits are a whole other world though. Here is true "transparency" and much more music detail, the finest filigree of room and space around instruments and voices. Here there is no doubt that there is NEVER too much detail, all of it serves to get to the heart of the matter: to slip into hall where music without electronics is performed in front of an engaged audience.

The Summits run circles around them, in dynamics as well.

.

As I said above everyone has a personal taste. I've owned Summits and Final, 300i, 400i & now 1000i and I prefer the Finals. I totally disagree that the Summits run circles around them....which final are you comparing the Summit too? Not the 1000i that's for sure.

 

[[email protected]]

As I said above everyone has a personal taste. I've owned Summits and Final, 300i, 400i & now 1000i and I prefer the Finals. I totally disagree that the Summits run circles around them....which final are you comparing the Summit too? Not the 1000i that's for sure.

Be careful in being sure without certainty. The metaphor of "running circles" may be a poor choice of words, I try to keep all speakers spot on.
As I described, there are irreconciable differences between the two designs. I am speaking of all Final models both the 1000i and the 600i, and the Summits (I use all).

I would say my ownership is the highest form of endorsement of both products. I simply would not use these designs interchangeably.

 

[jtwrace]

Be careful in being sure without certainty. The metaphor of "running circles" may be a poor choice of words, I try to keep all speakers spot on.
As I described, there are irreconciable differences between the two designs. I am speaking of all Final models both the 1000i and the 600i, and the Summits (I use all).

I would say my ownership is the highest form of endorsement of both products. I simply would not use these designs interchangeably.

YOUR the one that used "running circles".

 

[Pcar928fan]

YOUR the one that used "running circles".

Jason knows about "running circles" too! Let me tell ya! LOL! :rocker: It is what he does for a living!

 

[jtwrace]

Jason knows about "running circles" too! Let me tell ya! LOL! :rocker: It is what he does for a living!

LOL!!! That was very good James. I got it at least...

 

[Joey_V]

The all tube analog Summits are a whole other world though. Here is true "transparency" and much more music detail, the finest filigree of room and space around instruments and voices. Here there is no doubt that there is NEVER too much detail, all of it serves to get to the heart of the matter: to slip into hall where music without electronics is performed in front of an engaged audience.

I agree with that statement. It's this superb ability to gut-wrenchingly grab and ooze out the remaining detail that makes these Summits special. The equipment always unleashes its character through the Summits, while other speakers I've tried sort of mask the upstream's character/sound.

I have yet to hear a Final speaker, so I will hold off judgement until I hear a pair.

 

[jtwrace]

I have yet to hear a Final speaker, so I will hold off judgement until I hear a pair.

When ya' comin'? I also will have my Vinyl up and running....

 

[Diamonds]

What are you using for your vinyl setup?

 

[Joey_V]

When ya' comin'? I also will have my Vinyl up and running....

Jason! Hahhahah!!!

Would love to, my friend!

Joey

 

[jtwrace]

What are you using for your vinyl setup?

SOTA Nova. Is that okay?