Question regarding audio room and acoustics

[Joey_V]

Hey Guys,

So, we have the go ahead for a true audio room. This will be sizable room (based on my prior thread, we have decided to increase it from 13x14 to at least 14x18 - more likely on the 2nd floor but I'll see what I can do about putting it in the first floor.

My question is this:

Should I have it professionally done? Something like Rives? Or is there another type of audio designer that you would recommend?

Also - what do you think of a very anechoic room? Lots and lots of sound dampening and absorbers. I know this would make the room dead - but would this not allow for the speakers to speak for themselves without any room interaction?

Thanks!

 

[jmschnur]

Rt 30 should be about .33 or so. You will not enjoy dead for stereo.

 

[RUR]

My question is this:

Should I have it professionally done? Something like Rives? Or is there another type of audio designer that you would recommend?

Also - what do you think of a very anechoic room? Lots and lots of sound dampening and absorbers. I know this would make the room dead - but would this not allow for the speakers to speak for themselves without any room interaction?

First off, I would absolutely recommend working with an acoustician in the design of your room. Aside from your speakers, nothing else will have such a profound effect upon your listening experience. The nice thing about designing from scratch is that the treatments can be integrated into the room so as to be as unobtrusive as possible - the aesthetics/WAF factor.

Finding the right company to assist you is, I'm afraid, a non-trivial exercise. The gold standard appears to be Keith Yates, but he seems to be an incredibly busy guy and charges, I'm told, well into five figures. Lots of folks seem to be happy with Rives, but some are not and the most satisfied seem to be those who've gone "whole hog" with the level III service. The most consistent advice I read is that, like so many craftsmen, word of mouth is the best indicator. The difficulty with this approach, to me, is finding enough folks who've gone through the process to talk to, let alone visit their rooms for a comparison of the acoustician's work. One company I've heard positive things about is semi-local to you: HD Acoustics. Jeff seems to know his stuff and will, at the very least, provide a good starting point.

To tie this in to your question about anechoic, one of the things you and your acoustician/designer will/should discuss are the characteristics you want achieve in the soundfield - detail, spaciousness, etc. etc.. This is, in itself, another discussion, as there are a number of acoustical models with proponents for each. For a good primer on this, see Pete D'Antonio's excellent paper, From Mono to Surround: A review of critical listening room design and a new immersive surround design proposal. Dr. D'Antonio literally wrote the book on sound diffusion and is the founder of RPG.

I do hope you'll pursue a bottoms-up design, Joey. You're a lucky man and I wish I had that kind of flexibility.

 

[Joey_V]

First off, I would absolutely recommend working with an acoustician in the design of your room. Aside from your speakers, nothing else will have such a profound effect upon your listening experience. The nice thing about designing from scratch is that the treatments can be integrated into the room so as to be as unobtrusive as possible - the aesthetics/WAF factor.

Finding the right company to assist you is, I'm afraid, a non-trivial exercise. The gold standard appears to be Keith Yates, but he seems to be an incredibly busy guy and charges, I'm told, well into five figures. Lots of folks seem to be happy with Rives, but some are not and the most satisfied seem to be those who've gone "whole hog" with the level III service. The most consistent advice I read is that, like so many craftsmen, word of mouth is the best indicator. The difficulty with this approach, to me, is finding enough folks who've gone through the process to talk to, let alone visit their rooms for a comparison of the acoustician's work. One company I've heard positive things about is semi-local to you: HD Acoustics. Jeff seems to know his stuff and will, at the very least, provide a good starting point.

To tie this in to your question about anechoic, one of the things you and your acoustician/designer will/should discuss are the characteristics you want achieve in the soundfield - detail, spaciousness, etc. etc.. This is, in itself, another discussion, as there are a number of acoustical models with proponents for each. For a good primer on this, see Pete D'Antonio's excellent paper, From Mono to Surround: A review of critical listening room design and a new immersive surround design proposal. Dr. D'Antonio literally wrote the book on sound diffusion and is the founder of RPG.

I do hope you'll pursue a bottoms-up design, Joey. You're a lucky man and I wish I had that kind of flexibility.

I wonder how much level 3 with Rives would cost. And Yates well into 5 figures? I think my budget for the entire room should be no more than $10K. Is that too small of a budget?

The builder will be instructed to build a pure stereo room instead of a media room - I have allocated approx $10K to get that room into a world class listening room. I don't want to spend much more than that because the more I spend in the room, the less goes into components. Also, the more I spend in the room - the less likely I'll be getting that back should I even need to sell the home. I doubt there's many stereo listeners out there like us.

I wonder how much this room cost...

Probably way more than $10K.

 

[Ps68]

Hi Joey,
That is Mike Lavigne's room, he has a detailed report on audiogon about the construction I believe, I bet way more than 10k..

 

[jmschnur]

Please let us know your decisions and the path you take to stereo nirvana.

 

[Joey_V]

Hi Joey,
That is Mike Lavigne's room, he has a detailed report on audiogon about the construction I believe, I bet way more than 10k..

Yeah... but he built the entire room from the ground up. I think it's off of his house, like a barn of some sort. It has it's own vent system and the angles on the vents are rounded off to avoid excess noise... something crazy like that.

Mine will be built by the builder where the media room would be. $10K would be for treatments and extras that the builder would need to help me out with.

What else do I need?
- A few switches on the circuit breaker?
- 20 amp lines? How many?

This is the spec home of the house we want to build. You can scroll through the pics to see the media room. My thought is to make the audio room completely symmetrical (looks like it's a trapezoid with the Rt angled wall a foot longer than the other side on my floor plan) AND get rid of the stepped seating. I want just a single chair in there.

Btw, what shape is best? Rectangle or trapezoid? If trapezoid - where should the speakers be? Along the angled walls or along the flat wall on the opposite end?

Joey's Home

 

[jmschnur]

Several 20 amp lines .perhaps 4. Ps has outlets you can use with them. Ac should have several returns and the supplies should be baffled. Door should be of sound proof quality. Perhaps one day more than one person will listen in your room. Prepare for it. Trapezoidal rooms are not that important but dimensions are. Type of flooring and what the walls are made of and what is behind the walls matters. Look at the ceiling in Mike's room and try to emulate that.

 

[RUR]

If you want the room to be soundproof, think about double drywall with green glue and staggered studs. Shouldn't add that much cost.

http://www.greengluecompany.com/technicallibrary.php Plenty of discussion @ AVS, Gearslutz and other sites.

 

[RUR]

Hi Joey,
That is Mike Lavigne's room, he has a detailed report on audiogon about the construction I believe, I bet way more than 10k..

Here's the original build story by Mike. What's sorta interesting are the changes he's made in the front side walls (removed absorption, added 2D diffusors) and front poly diffusor (added skyline), since completion. This was a Rives design, and I wonder if the changes are design issues or simple audiophile nervosa.

 

[Joey_V]

Here's the original build story by Mike. What's sorta interesting are the changes he's made in the front side walls (removed absorption, added 2D diffusors) and front poly diffusor (added skyline), since completion. This was a Rives design, and I wonder if the changes are design issues or simple audiophile nervosa.

Exactly what I was thinking - if Rives design is flawed.

I may have to contact Mike himself.

 

[Bernard]

Joey, I think you should consider something larger than 14x18, especially if you are considering the CLX.

 

[Joey_V]

Joey, I think you should consider something larger than 14x18, especially if you are considering the CLX.

Have not auditioned nor even seen the CLX in person. How big of a room do I need? I thought 14x18 was big enough already?

 

[Bernard]

Have not auditioned nor even seen the CLX in person. How big of a room do I need? I thought 14x18 was big enough already?

I don't think you'll get a definitive answer to that question, especially since some people have made them work in smaller rooms, but those panels are 26" across each, so they need a lot of space. I have a 14x20 room, and have pipe dreams about getting them, but it would be a tight squeeze. Of course, I do have more than a single listening chair for furniture.

 

[Brad225]

I think if you were building it your self and looking for the type of room Mike Lavigne had built even $10k would be stretching it. From my years in construction I think you would probably be looking at 40-60k depending on the quality of finishes you are using with your contractor providing the labor.

I've also been looking at that room as a possible appearance for my music room I'll be getting to later this year once I've finished the rest of our major renovation on our home. When I first looked at the pictures last year I was thinking in the $15-20k range for my 16x24 room if I did it myself.

I think you can build a very nice room for 10k. If you are thinking you might sell and move in the future than using sound treatments that can be removed and taken with you would probably be your best approach.

 

[tsmooth]

Joey, I would assume you are done with residency? If so, congrats and enjoy building the house and audio room.