Question re: Spires & more tube or SS power

[daveneumann]

I am currently using a McIntosh 275 V amp with my Spires. My room is 12 X 25 X 8. I listen to mainly acoustic rock, jazz, vocal and some big band, usually in the 85 db range. I am using a McIntosh C2300 preamp.

While I really enjoy this combination, there are times during dynamic peaks and with complex music, when I feel the 275 looses steam and the music sounds a bit congested and looses some of the beautiful quality I hear at lower levels.

So I am down to two directions and wanted to get your opinions. First, I could get another 275 and go to monoblocks. I think the result of this would be to retain everything I like about the combination and the qualities of tubes, but give me more headroom with less congestion on the dynamic peaks.

The other direction is to get a Mc252, with 250 wpc. I would then use the 2Ohm output taps. I think this would give me plenty of power, but would also result in a different sound.

I wish there was a McIntosh dealer nearby so I could audition the 252 in my system. Unfortunately the closest one is a 4 hour round trip. So I am thinking Audiogon for this purchase.

I like the idea of having both a tube and SS amp, so I could switch back and forth. At the same time, I don't want to be disappointed with the combination of the Spires and the 252.

If anyone has any direct experience with higher powered tubes amps and solid state amps with the Spires, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Jeff Dorgay - I know you used the 275 and the 252 with the Spires and would like to get your perspective. I read your comments in the CLX review, but was wondering your point of view on going with two 275's versus the 252.

Thanks all.

Dave

 

[twich54]

Dave, Good morning, another Spire owner here.

last winter when auditioning tube amps to put into my then Vantage based system I listen to the "275" driving Vantage's @ Overture and given the demoing I did I thought it did a fine job but I felt (and still do) that the Rogue M-150's were by far a better fit. They have NEVER given me the impression they were running out of gas, FWIW my room is 14'6"x 23'.

My recent review of my M-150's explains my feelings, but given the price point of the "275" vs the M-150's it's an absoloute no brainer. Now in your case you already have a "275" so if you are satisfied with it's sound then add another to the mix !

 

[Dougster]

While I really enjoy this combination, there are times during dynamic peaks and with complex music, when I feel the 275 looses steam and the music sounds a bit congested and looses some of the beautiful quality I hear at lower levels.

If anyone has any direct experience with higher powered tubes amps and solid state amps with the Spires, I would appreciate your thoughts.

Dave

Hi Dave
I have no experience of McIntosh but the Monobloc route should in theory deliver I would have thought!! I am using my Spires with Moon Amplification namely P7 / W 7 (@ 300W per channel into 4 ohms, probably conservative rating) and there is no hint of loss of detail or congestion whatsoever... on the contrary!!! Moon stuff is fantastic for best of both worlds - trannie with musicality, and beauty of tone plus fast open with detail that serves the music... I know they're from north of the border, too, so maybe that's a thought!! If your staying with Mc I am sure others can advise on a solution 'cause the Spires up loud are just outrageously realistic (much much better here than Vantage) - with your eyes shut much easier to imagine a live band than believe it's recorded music. Just a live band with a fabulous PA!!

 

[daveneumann]

Thanks Dave and Bruce.

Dave - I used to own the Rogue 150's when I had AP Virgos. I agree they are great amps and Mark & Mark at Rogue are the best at customer service. How do you like your Plinius with the Spires? How would you compare the Rogues versus the Plinius?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[User211]

I'm with Dave, if you like the 275, get two! Much less of a risk that the complete change of tonality you will get with the SS option.

Or, just buy a 2nd hand MC252 and pass it on if you don't like it. Minimal loss of funds and possibly a gain if you do a good listing. Then double up the 275s.

Of course, you could try hammering some 211s into the KT88 sockets:ROFL:!!!

 

[FISH_MAN]

sounds to me like you may need acoustic treatments you may be noticing a problem with sonic decay and not your amp. my system is very similar and the treatments have really helped especially at higher volume levels

 

[twich54]

How do you like your Plinius with the Spires? How would you compare the Rogues versus the Plinius?
Dave

David the 'Plinny' is a great match with anything M/L, IMO (and a few others as well !)

With respect to the M-150 vs. Plinius SA-102, it's like I said in my review, once I settled in on the 'tube selection' of my choice I have got what the SA-102 gave me @ the Freq extremes plus a "titch" more midrange magic( truthfully I would not want to doe a DBT vs the Plinny though for when biased to full Class 'A' it is that good!), you may have noticed....I've yet to sell the Plinius !

Again, the tube rolling did bring the base M-150's to a new level, but it has been stated by owners of Mac's "275" (namely 'Nsgarch', he's no longer here, moved to the planet Uranus) that it needs tube rolling as well for it's stock tubes are somewhat 'sonically lacking' ??

 

[User211]

Again, the tube rolling did bring the base M-150's to a new level, but it has been stated by owners of Mac's "275" (namely 'Nsgarch', he's no longer here, moved to the planet Uranus) that it needs tube rolling as well for it's stock tubes are somewhat 'sonically lacking' ??

From my time with KT88s/6550s in the Air Tight, I'd say any amp based on this tube type needs a roll. This is because the sound the eminates from this tube type varies tremendously between different manufacturers products.

Hey, I got an e-mail from Uranus today... Good old N!

 

[Gordon]

I could be wrong, but I thought I once read here by Jeff that he thought a 352 would be the minimum amp (Mac) size needed. I had a 352 that I thought worked great! It never seemed to run out of gas to me. I have to qualify that by saying it was my first Mac piece and my experience is limited.

Gordon

My above comments obviously apply to SS.

 

[Rich]

I suggest you try to audition a few other amps with your speakers, both tube and SS. A few people on this forum have been happy with the MC275 with their ML's, but others have been less satisfied. Perhaps adding another and running them as monoblocs would fix your problem, or perhaps you just need a more powerful tube or SS amp to run your speakers without constraint.

I am of the opinion that more power is better with Logans, especially if you like to turn it up occasionally and play music with a lot of dynamic peaks. It is too easy for the sound to break up during complex passages with low-powered amps.

 

[User211]

It is too easy for the sound to break up during complex passages with low-powered amps.

Absolutely the indicator you haven't got enough power - along with flabby bass.