Primare Power amp match for ML Vantage

[Andries]

Hi there,

I am new to this club, and have a few questions: As with many things in life, it seems my absolute adoration of ML Vantage transparancy and pin point imaging also has its down side..... My system sounds a bit thin and "digital" on occasion. I prefer a richer sound that is not so clinical. I fear it might be either my power amp and/or CD player. Any advice on where to start investigating this problem?


My system:

(1) Primare DVD30 -CD & DVD playback
(Chord signature interconnect)
(2) Arcam AV9 - Stereo & surround pre-amp/processor
(Vd Hull the name interconnets to power amp)
(3) Primare A30.5 amp
(Chord Signature speaker cable)
(4) ML Vantage - main speakers

Regards

Andries

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Andries,

What is your listening room like?

Do you use any acoustic treatment?

GG

 

[Andries]

hi

The room is around 8 m long (24 ft) by 5 m wide (15 ft). It is carpeted, has no other treatment.

Andries

 

[Rvega003]

How new are the speakers? Although my Vantages sound good out of the box they where a bit on the harsh side for a few months. Once they got substantial break-in that attribute naturally improved. I would say your equipment is top notch but the downside of that is that many modern recordings are thin and overly digitized and accurate equipment will highlight the flaws as well as the pluses. Maybe a good DAC might be the answer. Finally along the line of what Gordon was getting into. Before even getting into treatments, room acoustics affect ML's more than any other factor, especially for sound staging. More so than any other upgrade, getting my Vantage's as far from the back and side and back walls as possible (shoot for 5ft as your goal) made a bigger improvement than all my gear upgrades combined, and I notice the difference with every upgrade I make. I hope to add absorbers in the future but just getting the Logan's away from the wall and properly toed in is a start.

 

[amey01]

I had a Primare amp many years ago when I first got my MLs. While I loved it with dynamic speakers, I found it quickly got a bit hazed and muddled when driving an electrostatic load. Take caution, but I'm sure a Primare power would be much more capable than the I20 I was using.

Good luck.

 

[Gordon Gray]

The room is around 8 m long (24 ft) by 5 m wide (15 ft). It is carpeted, has no other treatment.

Andries

Andries,

What type of walls do you have? Glass or no?

What is the distance from your listening seat to the speakers and the distance from the panels to the wall directly in back? How "reflective" (hard sounding) is the wall in back of the speakers?

Also, distance from panels to the side wall?

A sketch or description of your room will help us provide constructive input regarding your issue.

Best,

GG

 

[raanan]

Andries,

What type of walls do you have? Glass or no?

What is the distance from your listening seat to the speakers and the distance from the panels to the wall directly in back? How "reflective" (hard sounding) is the wall in back of the speakers?

Also, distance from panels to the side wall?

A sketch or description of your room will help us provide constructive input regarding your issue.

Best,

GG

I would try to put a few sheets of Sonex on the wall in back of the speakers,and also on the wall in back of the listener.You can try to put the speakers a bit closer to the wall in back of them.

 

[Andries]

thanks for all the responses. Let me try and answer some of the questions a bit. The walls of the room are typical UK dry walls. I played quite a bit with the positioning of the sepakers, I found the further I moved it away from back walls, the more transparent they got. They are relatively far away from the side walls (around 1 m - 3 ft) and slightly toed in. The distance between the speakers is around 2.2 m (7 ft). The distance between the speakers and the listening position is 4.5 m (15 ft). Behind the AV/Audio set up (the hi-fi stand) is a double glass door, but there are vertical blinds in front of the doors (see attached pic 1). At the other end of the room is another dooble door set, but these are always kept open (see pic 2). Apologies for pic quality, it was a bit dark.

The Primare A30.5 has ratings of 120W into 8ohm, 200W into 4 ohm (not rated into 2 and 1 ohm). So, I was hoping that the amp would suffice, but maybe not

 

[Andries]

Rvega003, maybe I should paly around with positioning a bit more, by the way, they are not that new, I had them since Feb and all my AV (incluing TV) goes through my AV system.

Just a question, would bi-amping work at all. I see in the ML manual they do not recommend bi-amping. Would that be because the amp has an internal amp?

Regards

Andries

 

[FISH_MAN]

Hi there,

I am new to this club, and have a few questions: As with many things in life, it seems my absolute adoration of ML Vantage transparancy and pin point imaging also has its down side..... My system sounds a bit thin and "digital" on occasion. I prefer a richer sound that is not so clinical. I fear it might be either my power amp and/or CD player. Any advice on where to start investigating this problem?



Andries

sounds like you know the answer to your own question. I really doubt the problem you are hearing is with your amp but rather your cd player. congratulations you now own a pair of speakers that will allow you to truly hear your source equipment.I would recommend that you go out and get an entry level turn table I own a pro-ject TT I think you may like the sound.


BTW you have a sweet listening room it looks super relaxing to me! Hang in their with those speakers if you feed them the right stuff you will be rewarded.

 

[Andries]

Thanks for the response. I fully trust you on your recommendation to get a turntable. However, I just don't see myself getting into vinyl at this point in time. There are limited music available on vinyl and I tend to listen to smaller artists. I guess I will have to go the expensive digital route

In fact I am looking forward to set up a system where my music can be stored centrally in some or other lossless format and I can stream it through a good quality DAC - I love that type of flexibility.

Regards

Andries

 

[Gordon]

Hi Andries and welcome to the club!

You have a beautiful room there! I had the Vantage for about 7 seven months before moving to the Spire. If you have the ability to add some traps to the room, I'd suggest reading over one of many threads here on the benefits of them.

In addition, I noticed your panels are at the factory rake angle. You may try tilting them forward to a more vertical position. The other Gordon (Gray) recommended this tweak to me and have never gone back. The difference is quite noticeable and is a low cost improvement.

Gordon

 

[tonepub]

Hello and welcome to the group!

If you can, just as an experiment, I'd try a different set of interconnects, if you can for audition to see where the sound goes. I've found the Chord stuff to be very revealing, but might be too much for an all solid state, all digital system.

I'd suggest something like Cardas or Shunyata that is all copper. Before you spend any money, see what that does. Might be all you need!

And yes, because the ML's are so revealing, you might need to make a jump in CD player eventually, but try a cable first. Too bad you don't live in my neighborhood, we could have a pint, and I'd bring a pair over!

 

[Andries]

thanks for the responses guys, I will try them

 

[Bernard]

Doesn't this thread belong in the member systems section?

 

[Andries]

Bernard, I am new here (see first post), so was not sure where to post these questions Apologies, I remain interested in views of members though ....

Regards

Andries

 

[Bernard]

Bernard, I am new here (see first post), so was not sure where to post these questions Apologies, I remain interested in views of members though ....

Regards

Andries

I was not giving you a hard time - just thinking that a mod should move the thread to the appropriate section. :music: