Panels under warranty?

[Brad225]

I am starting to have wrinkling in the upper left corner of both of my Electromotion speakers. On the worst speaker it is 4" into the panel and 6" down the left side. On the lesser one it is 2" into the panel and 6" down the side.
I called ML and spoke with Chris Cosgrove and his immediate reaction was that it won't hurt the sound and they don't warranty panels. These are serial #007 & 010 and 2 1/2 years old.
Once I pressed him put me on hold for no more than 10 seconds and came back and said to send some pictures and they would look at them and possibly so something.

He suggested the panels can't be replaced. Does this all seem a bit odd?

I called Sound Advice where they were purchased and was told they didn't know anything about the panel warranty and could only go by what ML tells them.

Waiting to hear from him but going public can't hurt.

 

[edwinr]

You should post some pics.

Panel wrinkling isn't uncommon and generally doesn't affect the sound. I've seen minor panel wrinkling in brand new Martin Logan’s - although I have to say, not in the new panels produced in Martin Logan's Canadian facility. Regarding the warranty, of course Martin Logan would repair a defect if it was within the warranty period. After the warranty period has expired, that might be another issue if the wrinkling is a cosmetic defect only.

P.S. I would be upset too if I noticed a wrinkle in one of my panels!

 

[amey01]

Well, that is a very unusual (and hopefully not worrying – but it sounds that way) response.

It likely doesn’t have an adverse or obvious impact on the sound – correct. But Martin Logan are not competing in the Radio Shack market - customers who pay the prices ML ask don’t expect defects. More importantly – customers who choose a premium brand like ML do so because they don’t want defects or compromises.

If near enough was good enough we’d go to Radio Shack and buy our speakers – we’d save a heck of a lot of worry and money doing so.

For the wrinkles to appear, the adhesives must have failed. How do you (or ML for that matter) know the entire panel won't fail in the future? How do they know it won't propagate? If the adhesive has failed in one spot, it will more than likely fail in other spots too.

And the sound? While the impact might not be obvious I’m sure it has some effect – it is effectively reducing the panel area / radiating area of your speakers. So on one hand we’re told we need Xstat microperf panels to increase radiating area, and then a defect like this reduces it again!

It must be fixed. End of discussion.

 

[Brad225]

Received a call back from Chris. He mentioned early in the conversation that he saw my post here. I guess ML does pay attention to the forum constantly. Not saying that it had anything to do with the out come.

Chris agreed they were wrinkled and said they would be sending me new panels. Thanks ML your customer service is appreciated.

In response to whether or not it would affect the sound. Maybe, maybe not. In the future who knows how bad it would get.

A larger concern for me is how much would you discount pair with wrinkled panels if you were going to sell/purchase them? Though I have no thoughts of that at this time.

Problem solved, thanks again ML.

 

[MrBT]

I called ML and spoke with Chris Cosgrove and his immediate reaction was that it won't hurt the sound and they don't warranty panels. These are serial #007 & 010 and 2 1/2 years old.
Once I pressed him put me on hold for no more than 10 seconds and came back and said to send some pictures and they would look at them and possibly so something.

He suggested the panels can't be replaced. Does this all seem a bit odd?

Are you sure you called right number? :ROFL:

Answer you've received seem highly unreasonable. Wrinkling in newer Electromotion? No warranty? Panels warranty was(is)5 years. Is the ML quality going downhill from Canada??? I want to believe it's isolated incident......

 

[Rich]

Wow! I am flabbergasted that his first response was that they don't warranty panels and that panels can't be replaced, both of which we know to be patently false! Is this the new direction of ML customer service? This is exactly the type of crap I was concerned would happen when they gutted the customer service department and fired Jim Power. I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but ML is slowly going to crap. Glad to hear they did the right thing in the end, though.

 

[Gordon Gray]

No offense to the OP but assuming facts are as stated, very disturbing indeed.

I previously owned four different ML models over some twenty years plus and never had a "wrinkle" issue.

GG

 

[amey01]

I hate to keep beating a dead horse

I don't want to flog a dead horse either, but just out of interest - how long have Paradigm been owned by this mob? Longer than ML I take it?

I wonder if Paradigm service is better than "We don't provide warranty on your drivers. I don't care if they're faulty. It shouldn't affect your sound. You can't change them anyway. Thank you. P1ss off. Don't call again." ?

I sincerely hope this is just an isolated aberration.

 

[Brad225]

An email from the transit company in Canada said my panels have shipped from ML and should be delivered in 6 days. This is the hi quality of customer service we have known from ML.

I agree Gordon the wrinkle issue is not common until panels are much older and 3M tape starts to give out.

I have had 4 sets of CLSs, 1 set of SL3s, current Electromotions, Cinema and a Logos and had a wrinkled panel in only one panel in the CLSs. I wondered if the fact that it was the upper left corner of both panels and early panel construction #s 007 and 010 may be the issue. Possibly an issue with the tensioning jig? No way to know for sure.

Regardless of the condition of the horse at least it is aware of how it is being treated.

Now as long as I don't break them at installation all is well.

 

[Rich]

I wonder if these panels were manufactured at the facility in Canada. It takes years to learn how to properly construct the panels and they had to train a lot of new people to do it at the new facility. It could be a byproduct of their rush to move production and get up and running up there. I honestly don't know if these panels are made there or not. It may just be that they cut some corners to try to mass produce a less expensive product.

 

[amey01]

Now as long as I don't break them at installation all is well.

Have a look at my panel replacement thread.

It is easy and the instructions provided are very thorough.

Hopefully you will find the same with the EM.

 

[Gordon Gray]

In any event, what Chris Cosgrove said is inexcusable and frankly abhorrent.

ML should be ashamed of themselves and the way they handled this initial interaction.

It won't hurt the sound? Really.

We all know that the panel size controls the sound dispersion output from the panel. No contact exceeding design parameters (spacer bars), no output. DUH!

I suggest that Corporate provide adequate training to service employees that interact with their customers so that encounters like this don't occur again.

GG

PS: Nothing personal against Mr. Cosgrove but this is a clear indicator of the negative "creep" in quality and customer service that Rich and others have been concerned about for sometime.

 

[Hocky]

I wonder if these panels were manufactured at the facility in Canada. It takes years to learn how to properly construct the panels and they had to train a lot of new people to do it at the new facility. It could be a byproduct of their rush to move production and get up and running up there. I honestly don't know if these panels are made there or not. It may just be that they cut some corners to try to mass produce a less expensive product.

My Summits have had minor wrinkling in the upper corner area for a long time. It is not a canada thing. Either way, all of my customer service experiences with them, both distant and recent, have been exceedingly positive. I can't say the same for my experience with JL Audio.

 

[rebonz]

I had the same issue with one of my electromotions. It will be two years ago this march. They ended up shipping me a total of three panels before I had one with no wrinkles. This seemed to happened around the time of the transition to Canada. I have to say they had no problem sending me panel after panel until I was satisfied. I do have to say I was a little disheartened that it took three panels until one was perfect.

 

[Tosh]

I'd like to see pics of these wrinkles, too!

 

[Brad225]

Right speaker

 

[Brad225]

Left speaker. Not easy to take pics of curved panels.

 

[amey01]

Here was mine (from back in 2008).

 

[Tosh]

Brad225: Thanks for trying to show pics, but I can't really make out the wrinkles...

 

[sleepysurf]

Brad, since you have replacement panels on the way, might as well try the "hair dryer" trick, and see if that re-tensions the mylar. Would be interesting to see if that works.