New CLX Owner

[David Matz]

Try Transparent. One of the owners of Transparent owns ML speakers, and the cables get "tuned" for synergy with the Logans.

Additionally, Tara Labs is a brand that is recommended by the Cable Company. I have never heard it, but it is probably a good recommendation. I am a little skeptical of the Cable Company recommendation as their conclusion are consensus based, which may be a result of groupthink.

 

[mgakathereaper]

David

Thx for the tip. I just spoke with a Transparent dealer and apparently they can actually "tune" the speaker cables for your specific equipment. He is going to see if he can get me some Reference MM2 cables tuned for my Krell EVO 402 and my Martin Logan CLX's. He would allow me to demo them prior to making any purchase which is exactly what I need to do.

He noted that the Transparent sounded much better than the Nordost Valahalla cables but also admitted he is probably a bit biased being a Transparent dealer.

 

[tonepub]

While I'm not in the Transparent camp, I am in the camp that the Krell stuff sounds a bit forward to me, so I'll bet you will get some excellent synergy between your Krell gear and the Transparent cable.

I'm not the worlds biggest Wilson X-2 fan either, but Dave Wilson has his setup all cabled with Transparent and it sounds fantastic!

Let us know what you come up with....

If you can get the killer setup by changing cable, that's way easier than changing amplifiers!

 

[mgakathereaper]

tonepub - It is possible this forward sound is what is bothering me which can be a combination of a lot of things. I have also heard that the Kimber cables are inherently "bright" by default. I will continue to determine the proper synergy for my system/room.

Out of curiosity, has anyone had experience with Silent Source cables? It seems that Mike Malinowski and Lloyd Walker rate them very high and at a fair budget. The review is over at 6moons from May 2008. Has anyone tried these cables with Martin Logans? Mike seems to like them better than the Transparent. Subjective and system/room specific I know but curious nonetheless.

 

[mgakathereaper]

A few updates:

- I am awaiting my Krell EVO 505 to arrive and I will have a pure CAST path from 505 -> 202 -> 402. The 505 will be replacing my Krell SACD Standard. I suspect it will take some time to break in but I will let you know my impressions.

- I have not changed out speaker cables just yet but I am eye-balling Transparent, Shunyata, Nordost and Silent Source. I am trying to line up demos if I can before going this direction.

- I have dipped my toe into analog and have added a Sutherland PHD Phone Stage so I could hook up my dads old Philips 877 Turntable. I figured this was the lowest cost of entry into analog to see if I want to do it right. His turntable has a Grado cartridge and he has about 200 old albums I have been playing with. I definitely need to procure a record cleaning machine and that is on my short list. I did not expect to be blow away with this setup since the TT and cartridge are very low end compared to my current CD setup. It sounds OK but I would need to take a large step forward to improve upon a pure EVO setup. In any case it is giving me a taste of analog and all the tasks associated with it.

- I am looking to get Jim Smith on site in March to voice my room. Once I nail down room issues then I will be able to better understand cable and component comparisons.

I am still having a blast and I am sure it will only get better as I try to find the perfect synergy with my system/room.

 

[JMAUSGP]

Not to sound too cliche' but your last sentence is the important one. Having fun while on the journey is definitely where it is at. As for record cleaners, you will probably find that they help with older records but you will undoubtedly wonder about a new record and how a virgin record sounds, at least I did. I found the new Cold Play album Viva La Vida on vinyl at Best Buy last week. It should be relatively easy to find and it is a pretty good album, it gives the CLXs some good exercise. And you can test out how a new album done with the latest technology sounds in Vinyl and you can compare it to the CD version on your new EVO 505 if you like as the CD was available right below the vinyl record at BB so I got them both. I start them up and just hit the button on the pre-amp to swtich between vinyl and CD, kind of fun!:rocker:

 

[Brad225]

I had a SACD Standard and replaced it with a Vacuum State upgraded Sony SCD-1. I had no idea how much grain and edginess and lack of depth there was with the Standard in my system. At that time it replaced a inexpensive Sony CD player and was Nirvana. I am sure the 505 will make a big change thou I am not familiar with it.

I reread many of the posts to see what you have tried. I'm not sure if this has been tried.

With my CLSIIz's, which I know is a different animal but when I get the toe in to much the image is very forward and harsh. Facing more forward smoothed that out a lot.

I recently removed a large cabinet from between my speakers and now have a 60" RP LCD that is 2+ feet behind the speakers. I found covering it with an acoustic panel and blankets helped move the vocals farther back behind the speakers. A much larger change occurred when I filled in the space (that you also have in your picture) from behind the TV up to the panels behind your subs leaving no wall exposed. It has almost removed to much of that center presents but I am leaving it that way for a week or two to get use to it and than slowly exposing a bit of the wall at a time.

If you have not tried it take the panels from the back of the room and cover all of the front and the short side walls you do have. I would be surprised if this doesn't help with the problem you are having.

As far as cabling I am using all Shunyata and am very happy with them they helped me also remove mid high harshness on some recordings and allowed for a much cleaner low end. Thou not an extensive selection my other cables have been Straight Wire Encore, Nordost Heimdall and DIY Belden, Canare and numerous OFC braids, twists and single strands of my own construction with Eichmann connections.

 

[mgakathereaper]

JMAUSGP - Good recommendation on the new vinyl test. I know for a fact my local Best Buy has some and I will definitely pick a few up. I am sure they will sound better than my dads old ones but I am not expecting the TT to rival my EVO stack. The TT is at least 30 years old and only cost a few hundred dollars back then. It is pretty cool though listening to the records I grew up with listening to on my dads system.

Brad225 - Interesting observation on the Krell Standard. It is certainly possible that some of my high frequency harshness was coming from my source. Most reviews agree the EVO 505 is a marked improvement in many areas over the Krell Standard so hopefully this will address some of what I was hearing.

Your comment around Toe-In is indeed valid for the CLX's as well. I have experimented with this extensively and have them Toed-In 2 inches. At 3 and 4 inches they do sound "brighter" overall. I am sure Jim Smith will put this to the test as well when he comes to my home.

I have experimented with additional panels on the front wall and they all impact the sound in different ways in relation to placement. I am going to order up some additional High Frequency panels and Micro-Traps so I have then on hand for when Jim visits. This will give us the ability to experiment even more. I recently raised my corner bass traps mid-way up the wall and this even seemed to help at the low end versus just letting them sit on the floor. As you noted, too many panels take too much away and hurt imaging. Putting High Frequency panels instead of the micro traps behind the speakers seem to flatten the sound to my ears. This probably makes sense since the HF panels are designed to absorb most of the higher end versus the micro traps which act more like diffusion.

I am glad you mentioned the Shunyata. I have spoken offline with a few others and they highly recommend the Shunyata speaker cables as well as power cords and conditioning. Would you mind sharing which Shunyata speaker cables you are using? I know they just released a whole new line up at CES. I am considering replacing my Richard Gray with the Hydra V-Ray2 and adding some Anaconda Power Cables to replace some of my Kimber Power Kord 10 Golds. All of these "upgrades" will only happen after Jim voices my room in March.

Transparent Reference MM2 and Nordost Valhalla are also on my list to demo. Essentially I only have the Speaker Cables to compare since my Krell EVO units will all be CAST II connected with Transparent CAST cables. I have heard some like balanced IC's versus the CAST connections but that is a lower priority for me right now.

 

[sleepysurf]

... I am looking to get Jim Smith on site in March to voice my room...

Cool! I am currently reading his book Get Better Sound. Lots of great tips, but he doesn't devote much attention to planar/dipole speakers. I'm really looking forward to hearing what he recommends for your CLX setup!

 

[Brad225]

I'm using Andromeda speaker cables to the CLS's and Vandersteen subs.

My Hydra has a Python Helix powering it. From the Hydra I use a Python Helix to my preamp, a Python VX to the Sony and Tipan Helix to the CLS's. My power amps have Python Helix on them. Both amps and the Hydra have there own 20amp circuit with SR-Z1 Shunyata receptacles in the wall. Three separate circuits might be overkill but there was easy access and only 30' run of cable for each so why not this is our obsession we are talking about here.

I realize this is different than the XLR or CAST cable but, when bought the Sony I knew I wanted to run it with XLR's so I had them to compare on the Standard. Both cables were Shunyata Altairs 1m one RCA one XLR. For what ever reason when I switched to the XLR they not only sounded clearer but noticeably louder on the Standard. I changed back and forth a couple of times to be sure because it was so noticeable. The upgrade to the SCD-1 was balanced only so the RCA's would have been in its original state and of no real comparison.

 

[mgakathereaper]

sleepysurf - the book is great and most of the setup tips can be applied to planar for the most part. Even though I have utilized most of the tips I still want Jim to come out since experience ultimately rules. Plus I can get an education on voicing a room properly. At least I will have peace of mind that I have done everything I can outside of different cables and components. I will certainly share this experience with the group.

Brad225 - Thx for the detailed response. It looks like you are a Shunyata fan for sure. I am sure I will end up getting a V-Ray II along with some power cords (probably Anaconda CX's). I will let my Richard Gray handle my theater components and the V-Ray will handle my dedicated 2-channel components.

XLR in general has a higher gain than single ended cables so that is probably what you were hearing doing your tests. I am sure I will still test XLR versus CAST at some point.

JMAUSGP - I did not make it to Best Buy this weekend and I am out of town all week but I will let you know once I get some virgin vinyl to test.

On the cable front I might be able to get a good deal on some Kimber KS-3038's. It is my understanding that these cables are not as bright as the Monocle XL's and very neutral since they are silver throughout. Anyone have experience with these Kimber cables? In theory they should be a quantum leap over my current Monocle XL's.

 

[Dougster]

On the cable front I might be able to get a good deal on some Kimber KS-3038's. It is my understanding that these cables are not as bright as the Monocle XL's and very neutral since they are silver throughout. Anyone. have experience with these Kimber cables? In theory they should be a quantum leap over my current Monocle XL's.

Good to hear you're enjoying yourself. Kimber Selects probably awesome, silver in general brighter and clearer than copper, but above all get your short list of cables at your place and trust your ears and use cable choice to fine tune the overall presentation. It would be a mistake to go for a bargain offer or to go on reputation or recommendations of experts. Home listen the only way to achieve your goal, especially with cables IMO.

 

[mgakathereaper]

I now have the EVO 505 in my system with a pure CAST connection from 505 -> 202 -> 402 and Monocle XL's to CLX's. While the Krell Standard was very good the EVO 505 takes things to the next level. The transport is so much quicker and quite than the Standard and things don't seem as grainy and harsh with the new player. The player and cable are still breaking in so things may change some more over time.

I have some Kimber Select 3038's on the way this week so that will be the next piece to compare. I would expect a nice jump from my current Monocle XL's based on reviews.

I am also investigating a demo of Synergistic PC and SC's. I have heard a pure Tesla system is very holographic so I will see if I can get this demo running. I may even demo the Synergistic ACT room treatment. This might seem like a gimmick but many are saying it makes a big difference if setup properly.

I am toying with upgrading my EVO 402 to the EVO 600 Monoblocks since this is ultimately where I want to be. Several folks I have talked with noted an appreciable increase in air around instruments, better tonality and better overall control.

Dougster - I am proactively trying to get some cables to compare for when Jim Smith is on-site. Currently it is looking like I will have the following:

- Kimber Monocle XL
- Kimber Select 3038
- Synergistic Apex

Potential:

- Transparent Reference MM2
- Shunyata Aurora SP

Power Conditioning:

- Richard Gray 1200C
- Synergistic PowerCell 10

Power Cables:

- Kimber PowerKord 10 Golds
- Shunyata Anaconda Alpha Helix
- Synergistic Hologram D, Precision AC, Tesla T3

We will see what I can swing in the next 3 weeks to pull this together. Still having fun.

 

[MiTT]

I think you do owe it to yourself to check out the Synergistic line. I've got nothing but Synergistic in my system and, while it is expensive for the top end stuff, I believe it makes a noticible improvement in all regards over everything else I have auditioned in my own system (Tara Labs, AudioQuest, Kimber).

Ted Denney is a very interesting guy to talk to, and he will happily explain the rationale behind all of his cables at all price points.

 

[mgakathereaper]

MiTT - I stumbled upon Synergistic last week when I was out of town on business and talking with some of my co-workers. They swear by the Apex SC's and Power Cords. Relative to Transparent Reference MM2 or even the Kimber Select 3038's they are a bargain if they can perform as indicated. I can get them for a 2 week demo so pretty much a no brainer for me to try.

Have you heard or demoed the ACT system from Synergistic?

 

[tonepub]

The ACT system is complete snake oil...

I sat in on five separate demos at CES and never heard a thing.
All mind control. Everyone doing the demo kept telling us what
we would hear once it was installed.

Everyone in the crowd oohed and aaahed and I heard nothing.

Just to check my work I brought my pal Rob LoVerde, who is one
of the mastering engineers at Mobile Fidelity along for a demo, not
telling him anything, but just asked for his observance and comments
afterwards.

When we got out of the room, he said "Dude I'm not a worthy audiophile
I didn't hear anything different..."

This is the quickest way to flush 3200 bucks down the toilet I've ever
seen.

 

[User211]

Love it, love it, love it!

Soz, but I just love it when people say what they think. No holes barred. No BS.

Post of the day, Jeff. Well, so far anyway...

Most people come to realise that there is a lot of BS floating around in hi-fi circles. And the claims made for some products are simply absurd. Looks like we have a case in point here.

 

[mgakathereaper]

Thanks for the heads up on the ACT stuff. It is certainly an interesting idea and there are several positive reviews out there but most of them have been influenced I am sure. If you were at CES then you have confirmed my skepticism.

I still plan to demo their cables and cords but will probably skip the ACT stuff.

 

[tonepub]

Love it, love it, love it!

Soz, but I just love it when people say what they think. No holes barred. No BS.

Post of the day, Jeff. Well, so far anyway...

Most people come to realise that there is a lot of BS floating around in hi-fi circles. And the claims made for some products are simply absurd. Looks like we have a case in point here.

I'm way in the MINORITY on this one...

This is really the latest audio "tweek" that everyone is enamored with.

6moons loves these things.

 

[DTB300]

6moons loves these things.

Oh, so surprising of 6Moons...