My receiver told me to switch the phase on my L/R speakers

[tsmooth]

I used the mic. and the EQ on my denon receiver tonight and after it was done calculating it told me to reverse the *phase* on my front speakers. So, I checked everything and it happened to be connected correctly, but for kicks I switched the + - and ran the EQ again. Upon returning to listening, the mid bass sounded a bit tighter and less “muddy”. Also, the imagining was more pronounced. On the other hand, the higher frequencies seemed to be different, not bad, but different. Are there any problems with keeping it set up with the polarity switched, or is this a common tweak?

 

[sleepysurf]

I had the same issue with my Summits and new Denon 3808CI, but telling me only my LEFT Summit had reversed phase. I researched this a bit online, and found that Audyssey can sometimes erroneously give you an "out of phase" warning (especially with dipole type speakers). They recommended just skipping the warning and continuing on with the measurements. That's what I did. However, now that you mention this, I might try reversing the wires, and re-running Audyssey, just for kicks!

 

[ak2000]

Audyssey is wrong, the problem is likely with room reflections. Try it again with pillows or blankets around the mic. I actually had the mic on top of the couch on top of some pillows to get it at ear height. Takes a few times and some patience.

 

[sleepysurf]

Audyssey is wrong, the problem is likely with room reflections. Try it again with pillows or blankets around the mic. I actually had the mic on top of the couch on top of some pillows to get it at ear height. Takes a few times and some patience.

Actually, when running Audyssey (or any other room correction measurement) you should use a tripod, or microphone boom, to eliminate reflections. Setting the mic on pillows, books, or holding it in your hand, will result in faulty measurements. I used a tripod, and since I have a (reflective) leather couch, I placed a blanket over the couch, and also a blanket over the tripod legs, during measurement. With Audyssey, it's also critical that the mic be oriented at "ear level" and at the proper "grazing angle" (e.g. pointing to the ceiling, 90 degrees to the speaker).

 

[tsmooth]

I will try it will something more like a tripod, and also I don't think the mic part was facing the ceiling (was pointing a bit forward). I think the most interesting part that I discovered was that the sound I received from changing phases was actually pretty good.

 

[sleepysurf]

If you have LOTS of spare time, grab your favorite beverage, and have a look at this Audyssey thread...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421

 

[Craig]

Since these speakers are dipole you are actually making some phase adjustments when you move the speakers closer or further from the front wall. The further you move the speakers from the wall the more delay there is from the backwave traveling to the backwall bouncing forward and then traveling to the listening position. The sound from the front of the panels have much less distance to travel.

When you move the speakers front to back you are adjusting the timing of the front and back wave. I read somewhere that 5 feet from the wall (measured from the front of the panel) is a good distance to ensure the timing of the frontwave and backwave reaches the listening position at an optimum time. That approximate distance seems to work in my system.

How fast does sound travel per millisecond? If you know this you can approximately measure the delay of backwave vs frontwave at your seating position.

This is why the receiver may sometimes think a speaker is out of phase and in some cases it may actually be correct. I'd check all the connections from source to speaker to be sure nothing is crossed.

 

[Rich]

Actually, what Craig is referring to is the difference in phase between the front wave of a dipole speaker and its rear wave. But that is different than the absolute phase of the speaker system. Your speakers should be set so that both of them are wired in phase. The best way to check this is with a test cd, such as the stereophile test cd's.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Interesting. When I have run Audyssey, I have never gotten a phase message. I am using an Integra DTC 9.8 which runs Multi EQ XT as well.
Cheers,
Mark

 

[JonFo]

Hello,
Interesting. When I have run Audyssey, I have never gotten a phase message. I am using an Integra DTC 9.8 which runs Multi EQ XT as well.
Cheers,
Mark

Mark, are your speakers in front of some absorbent material, or do you treat the wall behind them in any way?

Also, how far out into the room are they?

 

[Jungle Jack]

Jon,
My speakers are about 5 feet from the back wall. For now, I am only using two 500 CD racks as diffusion behind the Vantages. The seating positions are approximately 12-14 feet from the front stage. I have really enjoyed your writings BTW.
Mark

 

[JLasher22443]

I am having the same issues when using the auto setup feature with my Yamaha RX-V2700 setting up my Clarity’s. It keeps saying that W1: Out of Phase. It is saying that both fronts are reversed. I have double checked cables and receiver and everything is where it is suppose to be. Any ideas?

 

[sleepysurf]

You can either ignore it, or play around a bit with speaker toe-in or placement relative to walls, and see if that makes a difference (assuming wall reflections might be the issue. Audyssey (albeit different than Yamaha's proprietary EQ) says it's OK to just ignore the warning *IF* you are certain the wiring is correct.

 

[attyonline]

Another issue to keep in mind is that some speaker companies deliberately wire one or more drivers in one of their models out of phase. I do not know if ML has any of their speakers wired this way, but if you have taken steps to assure that the back wave is not confusing the mic, do not be too fast to reject the finding. As noted in an earlier post, the sound was improved by reversing the phase which may indicate his speaker in fact was wired out ot phase.

 

[JonFo]

Jon,
My speakers are about 5 feet from the back wall. For now, I am only using two 500 CD racks as diffusion behind the Vantages. The seating positions are approximately 12-14 feet from the front stage. I have really enjoyed your writings BTW.
Mark

Mark, thanks.

If you are measuring from 12' away, and have diffusion behind the speaker, then you are definetly measuring much of the rear wave (which is by denfinition out-of-phase).

Try measuring at 6' to 8' and see if you still get the warning.

As SleepySurf says, often it can be ignored.

But having ML's out of phase (relative to each other) is a big problem, as they really will not resolve the soundstage right if they are. So it's worth some effort to ensure that are at least wired corretly and that other parts of the chain are not reversing phase somewhere to one of the speakers.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
Jonathan, with my setup, I have never gotten an out of phase warning. I sometimes wonder about keeping Audissey running though, I have a fairly decent sized room with high ceilings without too many sonic gremlins it seems. I am about to order some products from Aurex to smooth out the room though.
Cheers,
Mark