My first listen to Summits!

[TomDac]

I went amplifier shopping today... Thanks to Dave @ Future Sound in Burlingame, CA for letting me come listen to Summits. I heard them first with Classe Omega Monoblocks ($30K) and then we hooked up a Classe CA2200 ($5K). Both sounded really nice. I was VERY surprised at how SMALL the Summits are!

The CA2200s are nice and I was very tempted to take them home for the rest of the weekend and put them into my system, but I held out... I want to audition the Pass X250.5 first..

Dave told me that he can still get Classe CA M350 monoblocks at a "condsiderable" discount. Anyone familiar with these?

Tom.

 

[Charliemike]

ML has really downsized haven't they?

Takes some getting used to after living with my SL3s for a few months now. When I was at Tweeter with a friend and saw Vistas, I was thinking, "Man, these are small!"

 

[Rich]

I was VERY surprised at how SMALL the Summits are!

You know what they say, Tom. Size isn't everything.

C'mon now. Your first listen to the Summits and not one comment about how they sound (except for an offhand remark about both amps sounding really nice)? I think we need a little more than that.

From what I have been hearing from various sources, once you listen to the Pass Labs you will soon forget all about the Classe. I am leaning that way myself for my new multichannel system. I just wish I had a dealer nearby to audition it. Let us know what you think about the X250.5 when you get a chance to hear it (and please, something more than: "it sounded nice.")

 

[TomDac]

Well, I have been living with Logans in my life for so long that I'm not blown away by them anymore.

The Summits sounded exactly like I expected them to sound: wonderful. I think the soundstage was smaller than my reQuests, but they had excellent integration between woofer and panel. I think the first time you hear Logans, you are blown away and the "WOW" factor is huge.

Or maybe it's me... I'm just getting over a serious flu-like crud and still not feeling 100%... Had to get out of the house today after missing a couple of days of work and being cooped up in bed trying to kick this thing....

 

[Joey_V]

Well, I have been living with Logans in my life for so long that I'm not blown away by them anymore.

The Summits sounded exactly like I expected them to sound: wonderful. I think the soundstage was smaller than my reQuests, but they had excellent integration between woofer and panel. I think the first time you hear Logans, you are blown away and the "WOW" factor is huge.

Or maybe it's me... I'm just getting over a serious flu-like crud and still not feeling 100%... Had to get out of the house today after missing a couple of days of work and being cooped up in bed trying to kick this thing....

Get rid of the flu thing, Tom! We're pulling for ya!

And regarding soundstage... it could be purely positioning. I seriously havent heard soundstaging the way the Summits do it.... albeit, I have little experience with the classic MLs.

 

[Beat_Dominator]

Haha I told Joey that his summits looked small once... I think it hurt his feelings

The CAM350 are supposed to be very nice amplifiers Tom, they are on my dream list because they would match with my preamp quite well

 

[kcl]

I was VERY surprised at how SMALL the Summits are!

Amazing, huh? You probably know that I'm replacing my Ascents with a pair of Summits. Well, they're currently sitting next to the Ascents until I can swap them out, and the Ascents are bigger than the Summits! They're not that much different in size, with the Ascents a few inches taller, about the same width, and maybe a little deeper. But with them side-by-side, the Ascents just look more 'substantial' and just, well, 'bigger'. If someone didn't know any better, I bet they'd look at the two and assume the Ascents were the 'better' speakers.

 

[jedi35]

Tom,

Thanks for getting me signed up, and hello to everyone. Since you mentioned Pass Labs, I wanted to thow in that I listened to the Pass X350 and the X2 preamp running the Monoliths at a friend's house about a week agao, and it was glorious. Dynamics were through the roof, and the top end had a wonderful sweetness to it. After hours of listening, I wasn't a bit fatigued. Bringing the volume down still yielded a very satisfying listening experience. The soundstage was very wide as well as deep, bass was earthshaking, and vocals were too good to believe. I felt that while listening to choruses I could walk around each voice if I had to, but the sense of the whole wasn't diminished in the least. If I had the money, this is what I'd own.

 

[jtwrace]

all of this Pass Labs talk gets me excited.

 

[Viking]

I recently ditched the Pass Labs X350.5 driving my Summits after getting a Wolcott 280-S tubeamp, it tops the Pass on all parameters except maximum SPL.

 

[tonyc]

Having gone from Apogees to the Summits I am still struggling with how tiny the Summits are. I Still feel the soundstage is not as tall as the Apogees, even with the Summits spiked and elevated on Black Diamond Racing pucks. But the Apogees were butt ugly and the Summits are gorgeous.

 

[edwinr]

The Summits are probably the first truly neutral hybrid ML have built. They grow on you the more you listen and they can astound when necessary. Last night I was watching Munich and there's several places in the movie when there's the most incredible low frequency sound. The Summits just dug right in and my wife came downstairs to tell me I was making the glasses rattle through several inches of reinforced concrete floor!

 

[Pcar928fan]

The Summits just dug right in and my wife came downstairs to tell me I was making the glasses rattle through several inches of reinforced concrete floor!

My entire house shakes w/ the Descent...it is unreal. You can feel it on the front porch! You might can feel it from the front of the Porsche(s) too...I have not tried that! LOL! :haha1:

 

[TomDac]

And regarding soundstage... it could be purely positioning. I seriously havent heard soundstaging the way the Summits do it.... albeit, I have little experience with the classic MLs.

Well, the guy at Future Sound has a room set up just for the Summits. It was perfect. Back wall traps, some wall treatments and a chair right in the middle. The soundstage was pinpoint. It just seemed smaller than what I'm used to. My friend Ryan who went with me said the same thing.

 

[akm3]

Well, the guy at Future Sound has a room set up just for the Summits. It was perfect. Back wall traps, some wall treatments and a chair right in the middle. The soundstage was pinpoint. It just seemed smaller than what I'm used to. My friend Ryan who went with me said the same thing.

This is heresy for me to say, and I will be crucified by the MLOwner community but...

Is it just POSSIBLE that the newer speakers with physicial smaller panels (microperf not withstanding) really DON'T sound better then the older/larger panels? And the main reason for making them smaller was to make shipping and home placement easier and NOT becuase you can get equivalent or better sound from a physicially smaller panel (microperf not withstanding)?

I have not had the opportunity to listen to Summits, but based on the reviews I know they are very good. But, are they really better then the old Prodigy or Request?

Just trying to start a discussion here, please don't flame me too much

 

[TomDac]

No flaming from me, dude. I totally agree with you..

The Prodigy and Odyssey were HUGE compared to the Summit and I'm sure ML's design team takes everything into consideration... including WAF and decor choices.

Don't get me wrong, they sounded wonderful... and the integration between bass and panel was the best I've heard from any of ML's hybrids, they are just so much smaller than their older models.

 

[Kenscollick]

I have listened to the Summits on two different occasions with Macintosh electronics. I enjoyed them but am not ready to swap them for my Prodigy's.

 

[Rich]

This is heresy for me to say, and I will be crucified by the MLOwner community but...

Is it just POSSIBLE that the newer speakers with physicial smaller panels (microperf not withstanding) really DON'T sound better then the older/larger panels? And the main reason for making them smaller was to make shipping and home placement easier and NOT becuase you can get equivalent or better sound from a physicially smaller panel (microperf not withstanding)?

I have not had the opportunity to listen to Summits, but based on the reviews I know they are very good. But, are they really better then the old Prodigy or Request?

Just trying to start a discussion here, please don't flame me too much

Absolutely, I think it is possible. And I would love to hear the results of a side-by-side comparison of the Summit and the Prodigy on the same gear to get an answer to just that question. What are the differences between them? What are the costs/benefits of going from a larger panel to a smaller panel (albeit with more radiating area due to microperf)? I can't imagine Martin Logan didn't do just this sort of comparison as they were developing the new line. But as you allude to, other factors come into design than just sound quality (as much as we hate to believe it is so).

I have a friend who has the Prodigies and I now have the Summits, but our rooms and electronics are so different that it is hard to do much of a comparison. I can compare them to my Ascents, but I don't think the Ascents compare at all to the Prodigies, so that is probably an unfair comparison.

Why don't one of you Prodigy owners pretend you are going to upgrade to Summits and get your dealer to give you a demo pair in your room to compare. Then tell us all what you think.

 

[Pcar928fan]

Why don't one of you Prodigy owners pretend you are going to upgrade to Summits and get your dealer to give you a demo pair in your room to compare. Then tell us all what you think.

That would just be MEAN!! I don't have room anyway, or it would be right up my alley!! LOL! :devil:

 

[edwinr]

Maybe there's some psychological factor in play here. The smaller physical size of the Summits is probably giving us a false impression that the soundstaging and imaging is smaller...

Solution... Listen with your eyes shut.