music server/DAC questions/recommendations

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jtwrace

jtwrace

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OK. I am really thinking of doing away with my Resolution Audio Opus 21 CDP. I am thinking of using a Mac Mini with a DAC. I've been told that the Wavelength USB DACS are awesome. I was able to listen to a system that had the Mac with a ARC DAC7 vs a ARC CD7. In some ways the Mac system actually sounded better but given the cost difference ($4500) there is no doubt that the convenience is worth it. The salesman was able to cue them both up so we just switched back and forth and WOW was I impressed.

My thought is to purchase a Mac, extra hard drive for storage/backup, DAC and that should do it as I have a 42" LCD already there that I can use for the onscreen menu that will auto dim so I can still listen in the dark. :music:


Any help you can give me would be great. Does anyone have any experience with the Wavelength DAC?
 
Jason,

Glad you started this thread as I have been wanting to ask the same question for a while now.

The mac mini looks like a great option, definitely go with an external drive ,preferably one that is also a network file server that will maximize your options for use with other rooms and systems.

I have been looking at the DACs from MSB Technologies I saw the Power DAC once at the Chicago Audio Society and it is really amazing. I would love to hear the Platnium DAC. The music server I hear the DAC with was from The Black Box Blue Smoke Entertainment Systems very small boutique company on the north side of Chicago. Sounded great, they were using a $25K MSB transport as the comparison device and the music server was much better.

Has any one else heard the MSB products for the Berkely Audio Design Alpha DAC?
 
Are you planning on having your Mac mini and extra Hard Drive in your listening room? If so, you need to consider the potential noise factor. I just upgraded to a 1.5 TB Netgear ReadyNAS NV+ for music storage, with the fan running it's moderately noisy, but not an issue since I have it in a remote location. FYI, the ReadyNAS series includes iTunes, SqueezeCenter, and Windows Home Media Server software, all pre-installed. It is powerful enough to run the streaming services without needing a separate PC or Mac.
 
sleepysurf said:
Are you planning on having your Mac mini and extra Hard Drive in your listening room? If so, you need to consider the potential noise factor. I just upgraded to a 1.5 TB Netgear ReadyNAS NV+ for music storage, with the fan running it's moderately noisy, but not an issue since I have it in a remote location. FYI, the ReadyNAS series includes iTunes, SqueezeCenter, and Windows Home Media Server software, all pre-installed. It is powerful enough to run the streaming services without needing a separate PC or Mac.
Click to expand...

That actually sounds interesting to me too Alan. How much coin does one have to give for such a thing?
 
Prices for the ReadyNAS NV+ have been falling, since Netgear just released the ReadyNAS Pro. I paid ~$900 for mine (upgraded to 1GB of RAM, with a 3rd 500GB drive installed for free). In the X-Raid configuration, 3 500 GB HD's give 1TB of redundant data. If a single HD fails, you don't lose any files. I can add a 4th drive later, as needed. The new ReadyNAS Pro's are a lot more powerful, with 6 HD bays, but overkill for my music streaming needs (at least for now). Lots of prior discussion about this approach here...
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5100
 
sleepysurf said:
Are you planning on having your Mac mini and extra Hard Drive in your listening room? If so, you need to consider the potential noise factor. I just upgraded to a 1.5 TB Netgear ReadyNAS NV+ for music storage, with the fan running it's moderately noisy, but not an issue since I have it in a remote location. FYI, the ReadyNAS series includes iTunes, SqueezeCenter, and Windows Home Media Server software, all pre-installed. It is powerful enough to run the streaming services without needing a separate PC or Mac.
Click to expand...

Alan,

Agreed on the noise issue, and that the NAS and ripping computers should be remote to the room and electrical circuit used for analog.

You still do need a 'computer' in the listening room. It servers as the user interface and decoding computer to turn the mp3, apple lossless, flac, etc back into the bitstream for the DAC. In your case it is the squeezebox, at the present for me Sonos and for Johnathan it is his Denon AVP preamp.

So the questions remain does the DAC or the music server have the most impact on the subsequent sound quality (I will assume that the music format is lossless).

Anyway off to see Wadia's entries this afternoon, will report back this evening.
 
Burke said:
.... So the questions remain does the DAC or the music server have the most impact on the subsequent sound quality (I will assume that the music format is lossless)...
Click to expand...

Noise can be introduced from power supplies and/or displays, but I think the critical components are the converting interface (Squeezebox, Sonos, or computer) and the DAC (internal or outboard). Lots of discussion/arguments around the net regarding end result "jitter" measurements. Personally, I'm happy with the Squeezebox/Benchmark solution, but there are now a lot more ways to "skin the cat".

One last, but important consideration, is whether you might (eventually) play 96k Hz/24 bit streams, in addition to the std 44 kHz/16 bit. These higher-rez streams are potentially as good as SACD, but only a few players currently support them- Transporter, Media Monkey, and (I think) Linn DS players. The Squeezebox, Sonos, and iTunes do not.
 
As far as I know, the Mac mini does not have a fan. If it did, I didn't hear it. The Mac is about $800 max. Of course I would add a 1TB drive as well. Still no big deal for the cost. I was told that the Apple sounds better FWIW.

I currently have the SB3 going into my CDP DAC and it sounds good but not nearly as good as my CDP so I think the SB3 is out.
 
jtwrace said:
...I was told that the Apple sounds better FWIW.
Click to expand...
I don't buy that... lossless is lossless.

...I currently have the SB3 going into my CDP DAC and it sounds good but not nearly as good as my CDP so I think the SB3 is out.
Click to expand...

If you're using the same DAC, and streaming lossless (FLAC or ALAC) with bit-rate limiting turned off, it should sound pretty darn close to the CD player itself. Maybe it's a cable issue, or somethings not configured right.
 
Yes, streaming tends to sound better on my system too - very close, but through the same DAC there is something going on there.

I'd go some sort of dedicated streaming system such as the Squeezebox. It can output S/PDIF, is designed to stream music. That way, you don't need two potentially annoying things - 1. A screen flickering in your listening room through the quiet passages of your favourite piece and 2. A noisy system in your listening room!
 
Sqeezebox Duet and . . .

amey01 said:
Yes, streaming tends to sound better on my system too - very close, but through the same DAC there is something going on there.
Click to expand...

I had started a thread a couple of week ago without much response. I did go ahead and purchase a Squeezebox Duet, which is not yet installed. I added a Maxtor external 1TB hard drive to my PC and have been reloading ALL of my CD's on iTunes in Apple lossless format.

I'm now trying to figure out which DAC to get. I am considering the new DacMagic by Cambridge Audio to get my feet wet. Introductory price in only $399 and It's been getting very good press thus far. Of course there are the usual other suspects, most noteworthy being the Benchmark DAC1 and and the PS Audio Digital Link III.

I wonder what the difference would be using the DAC from the infamous Cambridge 840C would be versus their new DacMagic box. The DacMagic upsamples to 192kHZ while the 840C upsamples to 384khz from what I can tell. The 840C uses a 32-bit Analog Devices "Black Fin" DSP, while the DacMagic uses a 32-bit Texas Instruments DSP. Too bad the 840C doesn't do SACD :(

I'm looking to the Squeezebox Duet to DAC route for redbook, and probably get a Blu Ray Oppo universal player when that comes out in the next few months. Rumor is the street price will be $700. I can play SACD's on that.

A few Dumb questions . . .

What happens when you copy a SACD into Apple lossless and play it through a DAC? Will it make a difference when played back via the DAC, or will it not even interpret the SACD?

Are the MOFI gold CD's going to sound any better than the "regular" counterpart when played through the DAC? It looks like the bit rate on those are both the same, so will it only sound "better" when played via a CDP?

Thanks!

J. M.
 
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music again said:
. . . What happens when you copy a SACD into Apple lossless and play it through a DAC? Will it make a difference when played back via the DAC, or will it not even interpret the SACD?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, you CAN'T rip a SACD. Only way to play them is via a player.

Are the MOFI gold CD's going to sound any better than the "regular" counterpart when played through the DAC? It looks like the bit rate on those are both the same, so will it only sound "better" when played via a CDP?
Click to expand...

If the MOFI Gold CD's are mastered better than non-gold CD's, they will sound better than standard CD's, regardless whether via a player or losslessly streamed. XRCD's likewise.
 
sleepysurf said:
Unfortunately, you CAN'T rip a SACD. Only way to play them is via a player.



If the MOFI Gold CD's are mastered better than non-gold CD's, they will sound better than standard CD's, regardless whether via a player or losslessly streamed. XRCD's likewise.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I know you're "up" on this stuff, and I'm still trying to figure it all out :rolleyes:

So . . . . I can rip my CD's to Apple lossless on iTunes, but what about downloading new music on iTunes? How can I get Apple Lossless files downloaded?

Do you know if I can have TWO copies of iTunes on the PC and place music files in two different directories? My issue is my daugter is just using her iPod and doesn't want the Lossless files because they are too big. I on the other hand want the Lossless. I'd prefer to keep these seperated. Since I don't have the Squeezebox up and running yet, I'm not sure of the interface. Can I have both versions in the same directory and be able to tell on the Duet screen which is which?

. . . and to thinbk I'm trying to SIMPLIFY things! :D

Almost forgot, which is the best way to connect the Squeezebox to your DAC, analog (probably not), SP/DIF optical or coaxial cable?

JM
 
Last edited by a moderator:
music again said:
Almost forgot, which is the best way to connect the Squeezebox to your DAC, analog (probably not), SP/DIF optical or coaxial cable?

JM
Click to expand...

You can't connect via analogue because it is a Digital to Analogue converter - it needs a DIGITAL signal.

A lot of people say coax sounds better than optical, however with a good glass optical cable I am hard pressed to tell much difference on my Musical Fidelity X-DAC v3. But I would imagine any differences are largely dependant on source, DAC and cable used.

I was hoping optical would sound better as it electrically isolates the electrically noisy / Wi-Fi Squeezebox, but that wasn't the case.

Best advice is the usual advice - try both in your own system and make up your own mind.
 
music again said:
Almost forgot, which is the best way to connect the Squeezebox to your DAC, analog (probably not), SP/DIF optical or coaxial cable?
Click to expand...

The best way is coaxial digital cable.

Also you mentioned the PS Audio Dac III. PS is introducing a new Ultralink DAC in the spring the write about in the Sept. Oct, and Nov newsletters
http://www.psaudio.com/newsletters/09-08.asp
http://www.psaudio.com/newsletters/10-08.asp
http://www.psaudio.com/newsletters/11-08.asp


As far as keeping for than one copy of the music around. It should be possible to keep different copies in separate directories but I do not know how to make iTunes do that. What I do is to use dBPowerAmp to rip all of my CD to wav files (uncompressed) and then use their converts to compress them (lossless) to FLAC for the Sonos and store those on the NetDrive and lossy compression AC4 for 'import' into iTunes and downloading to the iPod. I have then have three copies of the files (two lossless) on three seperate hard discs in case of failure.
 
Wadia DACs

I got to listen to the Wadia 581ise and Series 9 decoding computers on Sunday. I spent about 3 hours talking with Martin Cooper (Wadia Sales) and listening to the Series 9 (921 controller and 931 mono dacs). The sound was great very detailed but not harsh in any way.

the audio chain on this demo was
Wadia i170 iPod dock ($380) or Wadia 781 as CD/SACD transport ($15,000)
Wadia 921 controller (with digital volume control) (Series 9 $30,000)
Wadia 931 mono DACs
Krell Evolution One Monoblock amplifiers
Krell Speakers (new not on the web site)

This was digital right up to the mono blocks, Very nice sound, full and detailed at all volume levels.

The Series 9 sound is to die for but at $30,000, my wife would surely kill me:devil:
I was unable to reconfigure (this was the Chicago Audio Society demo) the setup and feed the 781 outputs directly to monoblocks to compare it to the series nine But I did ask Martin about the differences. He said that the Series 9 was not twice as good (costs twice) as the 781ise. Most of the difference was in the subtle details everything just sounds more refined. So for High End DACs (>$10,000) I would look at the Wadia gear.
 
I'm sure you set up separate directories and each own their own library of files.

A better way is to setup separate login accounts for each person on the computer's operating system. That would be like each person having their own computer on the same box. Each can have their own software loaded, own personal settings and own separate data/files. They would also have their own iTunes with their own libraries. At least that's easy to do on a Mac. I'm sure Windows XP or Vista provides the ability to setup separate accounts on the their Operating Systems.
 
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