ML surround sound questions

[bonzo]

So, I have now decided to go ahead with an ML surround system (instead of a Meridian which was the one I was comparing it with), and have the following questions (all with an emphasis on music, though I will also use it for movies).

I can easily set up a surround sound with EM-ESL, centre C2, and maybe descent i sub.

1. I am willing to buy the Ethos for the front two, but does that mean I will have to up my centre speaker as well?

2. I can get a used Summit at a nice price, does that mean I have to upgrade my centre as well?

3. I have heard the EM-ESL and Ethos with Krell's and Quad Elite QSPs in stereo mode and love that sound. I can always get a Krell surround processor and 5 channel power amp, but that is way too expensive. What are cheaper alternatives?

I have heard the surround with a Pioneer AVR and hated it, though I know I don't like Pioneer. Too harsh and thin, I like the guitar to sound soft and thick. I like the Arcam sound, but haven't tried it with Martin Logans, but will do. Any other cheaper recommendations, like Rotel or so that I can try out. Music will be blues, rock, classical.

 

[JonFo]

Based on the limited space you described earlier, and that you're essential building out a system from scratch, I'd recommend spreading the budget out across the system and keep the speakers a bit more modest.

You are right that the hardest speaker to source here is the center (or centre for you ), as it will never really match the L/R perfectly, all you can do is get closer.
I personally thing that the C2 is good center, and will mate well enough with the EM-ESL.

So I'd recommend the following config:

Main stereo pair: MartinLogan EML-ESL
Centre: MartinLogan EM-C2
Rears: Martin Logan EM-FX2
Sub(s): MartinLogan Depth i

As for preamp, the current value and performance champ is the new Marantz AV8801. With all the latest codecs and the latest room correction modes, this thing has proven to be a choice unit.

For amps, I'd highly recommend a Sanders Sound System for the ESLs, for the others a nice Rotel or Arcam multichannel unit.

Finally, do budget some for some room treatments as well. Nothing will improve the final sound as much as making sure that the room is not overwhelming the sound with resonances.
You want to treat the wall just behind the ESL units with a good broad range absorber (250 - 20Khz), and treat corners and wall / ceiling edges with bass traps.

 

[bonzo]

Thanks - The reason was asking about the Summit was I can get a used one for just a bit more than the EM-ESL, so I am still comfortably in budget. I can also afford an Ethos, and the used Summit falls in between.

But does that mean I will have to get a Stage instead of a C2? And amps other than what you recommended?

As for amps, I have not seen a Sanders at a London dealer, but will check. Is that a sound processor or a power amp? WHat happens if I combine the Arcam with a Krell integrated amp that drives the front two, do I get the same output from the front two as I would have had I fired them in stereo with the Krell, or does the Arcam take over? I am assuming since the Krell has a pre-amp Arcam can be bypassed for the front two. Again, I can pick up a Krell 2-channel easily from the used market. Problem is their 5-channels are hard to come by

Any good links to basics of room treatment? I saw a thread by you that is hard to get my head around at the moment

 

[babydoc]

Thanks - The reason was asking about the Summit was I can get a used one for just a bit more than the EM-ESL, so I am still comfortably in budget. I can also afford an Ethos, and the used Summit falls in between.

But does that mean I will have to get a Stage instead of a C2? And amps other than what you recommended?

As for amps, I have not seen a Sanders at a London dealer, but will check. Is that a sound processor or a power amp? WHat happens if I combine the Arcam with a Krell integrated amp that drives the front two, do I get the same output from the front two as I would have had I fired them in stereo with the Krell, or does the Arcam take over? I am assuming since the Krell has a pre-amp Arcam can be bypassed for the front two. Again, I can pick up a Krell 2-channel easily from the used market. Problem is their 5-channels are hard to come by

Any good links to basics of room treatment? I saw a thread by you that is hard to get my head around at the moment

What you have not specified is your budget requirements. Used Summits (and now used Stages, given that the Stage X has been released), are significant step up from what you are considering. The main question you have to answer is whether you want to go with an AVR (processor and amp all in one) or with separates. For the money, Marantz has good equipment both ways that I have heard with M-L speakers. Just a suggestion.

 

[bonzo]

EM ESLs are £2.5k while I am getting a good pair of used summits at 4k. That's fine for me.

 

[JonFo]

One can never have too big a center speaker (see my sig), so a Stage will work best regardless.

The Sanders is an amp designed specifically for ESLs, it is wonderful piece and worth every penny of its $5,000 cost. You can get one shipped direct from the manufacturer.
I have one now powering my Monolith panels, but will be buying three more in the near future (monoblocks for Monoliths, and a 2ch unit for my custom center). Seriously good stuff.

But if not in your budget or taste, then other being recommended and used by other members might be a good choice. I've found Sunfires to be a great match and good value.

I'd reconsider the Krell preamp, when pieces as nice as the Marantz 8801 are out there, no point in putting more money in the pre.

As for room treatments, please take a look through some of the threads in the room treatments section. But you are correct, we probably need an "Intro to Room Treatment for ESLs" around here. One of these days I'll get around to drafting that ...

 

[timm]

Jonothan -- since we are talking used.... with the possibility of amps in the mix... I know you have ... or had ... a lot of Sunfire gear... Can you speak to the differences between your Sunfire and Sanders amps - since you could get a Sunfire used for a whole lot less....

 

[bonzo]

Thanks. On room treatment, I saw some links to pads (bass traps) put up on the wall, and a couple of simple questions.

1. Do I have to fix them to a wall, does it work if you leave them leaning against the wall behind the woofers, and on the side?

2. If you have to fix them, does it need to be all along, or in patches?

Regarding the Krell, the S300i is an integrated amp at 1600 GBP (ex-dem). Is the sound of the Sanders and Sunfire thick, melodious, and bassy? For bluesy guitar and rock drums? I don't like harsh and thin, edgy? DOes Sanders do processors?

 

[SubSolar]

Has anyone used or heard the SLM's as surrounds?

 

[khenegar]

ml/surrounds

SubSolar: the main thing is that you invest in the front three speakers the best you can afford that is were 95% of you rmusic is going to be. i had scripts for sides and sl3's rear and i got tired of all the power cables size and location. So i went an bought some dipole/bipole speakers for the side and rears they are up and out of the way no power cables to worry about and to me which i know some will disagree! it sounds just as good especially with music there is such little information going to the surrounds you wont miss it.

 

[jmschnur]

Yes indeed
Montis, stage x in front , ML fx2 sides , NHT hdp-2 dipole rears.


J