ML SL3s for my Mac amp

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gelmhirst

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Just registered. Amazing wealth of knowledge here, so glad I found a site dedicated to MLs as I am seriously considering the SL3s for my next speaker upgrade. I would be using them with my McIntosh 252. One concern, I mostly listen to vinyl, blues, jazz, and some classic rock.
I have heard that on the occasional rock tune, through electrostatics, the dynamics suffer somewhat as the amount of information/music and speed it is being played at overwhelms the hybrid design.
This criticism is from a couple of forum discussions elsewhere. How accurate would this assessment be? :music:
 
...
I have heard that on the occasional rock tune, through electrostatics, the dynamics suffer somewhat as the amount of information/music and speed it is being played at overwhelms the hybrid design.
This criticism is from a couple of forum discussions elsewhere. How accurate would this assessment be? :music:


First :welcome: aboard!

I would say: It depends.

Placement can have a lot to do with how severe the rear wave cancelation in the mid-bass is for a particular speaker in a given room. Get that wrong, and you get a big dip between 100 and 400Hz, smack in the mid-bass, where drums and bass guitars have much of their energy in rock music.

If you put a good absorber /diffuser behind the ESL, say something like the Real Traps Diffuser is ideal, as it absorbs energy below 600Hz and diffuses frequencies above it (ensuring they don’t bounce of the wall behind the speaker and back trough it, smearing the image). Now the speaker can really perform its magic.

I’ve spent considerable time measuring, testing and building various solutions to the conundrum of how to make a ML speaker ‘rock’, and the ultimate answer is to augment the mid-bass in some form, either through room treatments, some EQ or wholesale replacement with a mid-bass line-Array.

The best results of course to do all of the above at once ;)

People who hear my rig can’t believe the bass/mid-bass energy it puts out (and that’s before I’ve really finished room treatments).

The other challenge with ESL’s and Rock, is that ESL high-frequency power curves are much flatter and more importantly, waaay cleaner than most dynamic speakers. So at high volumes, the speaker still ‘sounds’ the same. This is due to very low distortion from an ESL vs a dome tweeter. A tweeter will progressively distort as you push the SPL’s up.
This leads some listeners to be quite surprised by how loud the ESL’s can play without actually sounding ‘loud’; and that’s because everyone raised on dynamic speakers expects loud = distorted.

Bottom line, the differences in topology between dynamic and ESL lead to ESL’s having a flatter, cleaner high frequency power curve, while having a progressively compressed low-frequency power curve.
Dynamic speakers typically have progressively compressed and distorted high-frequency power curves, and often a raising (and depending on config) low-frequency power curve (and much of the raise in SPL is attributed to added distortion products).

Therefore, the ideal speaker is an ESL from mid-bass on up and a line-array for mid-bass to bass, and the biggest, baddest sub you can fit ;)
Oh wait, that sounds like a MartinLogan Statement e2 :)
 
thx

Hey thanks guys, JonFo, interesting results and an answer that leaves me lots to think about, esspecially when I have a big window behind, and inbetween both speakers...
 
I used to have the SL3...they like MACs...midbass hole is less of a problem with this hybrid as the woofer handles frequencies up to 250 hz....the hybridization is not as seemless as the newer designs but because of the narrow panels they still put out some of the better/less phasey treble of all the designs.
 
I deleted my previous post because I neglected something I shouldn't have.

My belief for why ESLs get a reputation for being poor speakers for rock is that if you present them with half-ass, budget studio work you get half-ass, budget sound out of them. When I first got my MLs, and again when I got my new amp, I went through most of my music again and discovered so many pieces with details I'd never heard before. I have a couple of threads about pieces that either rose or fell due to the new musical information superhighway that exists in my living room. Primarily the Crash Test Dummies which is some of the best studio work I've heard. Also, Pink Floyd albums have taken on another level of depth when I thought they had all that was possible before. On the other hand, my formerly favorite classic recording of all time which has low-frequency background noise that simply hasn't been produced on *any* speaker I've ever ran it through, and it's been a "reference" recording for me since 1990; it sounds like a train on my MLs. And Hootie and the Blowfish's first record, some of my favorite radio music from my youth, is barely bearable to listen to because it sounds about as full and musical as cheap glass hitting the floor.

I'm sure I'd have none of these issues with Cerwin Vegas (hell, I didn't with a decent pair of Mirages!), but neither would I have the rewards.
 
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