ML: Music vs Home Theater

[ejn1111]

Hi All,

I'm new to ML and have updated my 5.1 surround system to a pair of Script-i for the mains, a Motif center and EM 4 for rear surrounds (Plus a 15 Servo Sub). They are all driven by a Bryston 9B-ST amplifier. I really like the crispness and clarity of the ML sound for HT but the 2-channel playback is taking some getting used to... Voices sound great in acoustically music but I'm struggling with the sound in pop/rock tunes.... It sounds a little bright (surprising my fully carpeted room) and thin on the dynamics versus my prior system.... I'm not a professional listener by any means so not sure how best to describe it but the speakers lack dynamic punch that I'm used to... Curious if anyone else has similar views or solutions? Maybe this would be cured with bigger panels as the mains? My view is that the script-i's can play plenty loud enough and the subwoofer should augment the low end but maybe it's their size that is creating the lack of depth and dynamics in the sound?

Appreciate all views.
Thanks.

 

[Rickk]

First question: Are you using the same (surround) settings for music as you are for home theatre? Or do you switch to a "pure" stereo mode?

Second question: Are the Pop and Rock recordings on CD, Mp3?

"Stats" have the reputation of being less dynamic but clearer and faster than dome and cone speakers. In stereo mode check to see that your receiver doesn't switch out your sub woofer and check the speaker size settings in your bass management settings. I am general belief that music sounds better on dedicated 2 channel systems. Home theater receivers have a lot of idle circuits when operating in 2 channel. Not that this alone will make a system sound bright. If you have a bright receiver using them with M/L will only make them seem brighter. More "laid back" electronics may be in order. Of course you may be experiencing more extended treble and cleaner transients/less smearing. Tell us about your other equipment.

 

[projectormovielover]

ML will let you hear all the flaws in your system so what ever crap is in there will stink 1000 fold with the stats. I hate music on my avr it sounds bad and I have a pioneer elite vsx01. When on the avr the music was thin and bright even though the pioneer was not bright with my polk rti and they are bright speakers

Best thing you can do is run the speakers full range on the crossover and throw it into direct mode. I suggest buying a little chinese tube integrated if funds are tight. I did this and have a yaqin mc10l $550 shipped It really brings out the midrange and bass way better than my cones do when hooked up to it and you can do tube rolling for better sound. Ml speakers love tubes so if you want some cone dynamics for the odd 2 ch experience then go for the integrated or better yet a nice tube preamp to pair up with that amp you have. Keep in mind that most multi channel amps just dont cut it for 2 ch

 

[ejn1111]

Thanks for the quick replies...

My system is a Emotiva UMC-1 Preamp, Bryston 9B-ST (5x125w channel amp but each channel is modular so like 5 monoblocks in one chasis). I also have a Velodyne FSR-15 sub.

I listen to CD through my Yamaha DVD transport via digital out to the preamp.

My preamp has a direct 2 channel stereo mode but it disengages all crossovers and the sub and I find the Script-i's have to have sub for use as mains.

So I do listen to music with the crossover (80Hz) and sub engaged but I do not have any other equalization active.

The amp has plenty of power so I dont think thats an issue but it is a very transparent amp so no coloration or warming of the sound which is kind of Bryston's trademark.

I do love the system for HT and acoustic mixes of songs with clear vocals. All other music, my old Paradigm Reference bookshelfs had a nicer sound imo.

 

[tsv_1]

Thanks for the quick replies...

My system is a Emotiva UMC-1 Preamp, Bryston 9B-ST (5x125w channel amp but each channel is modular so like 5 monoblocks in one chasis). I also have a Velodyne FSR-15 sub.

I listen to CD through my Yamaha DVD transport via digital out to the preamp.

My preamp has a direct 2 channel stereo mode but it disengages all crossovers and the sub and I find the Script-i's have to have sub for use as mains.

So I do listen to music with the crossover (80Hz) and sub engaged but I do not have any other equalization active.

The amp has plenty of power so I dont think thats an issue but it is a very transparent amp so no coloration or warming of the sound which is kind of Bryston's trademark.

I do love the system for HT and acoustic mixes of songs with clear vocals. All other music, my old Paradigm Reference bookshelfs had a nicer sound imo.

Hi and welcome to the forum. In all honesty, I think there's only so much audio-wine you'll be able to squeeze out of a pair of Scripts as main L/R speakers. Not knowing your budget, I would not presume to suggest you consider looking further up the model line... but... if you were to do so, I think you would begin to find that the other genres of music you enjoy would become much more, well, enjoyable.

Cheers

 

[projectormovielover]

Get rid of the pre

 

[shakham]

Have you tried playing with their placement? Are they on the wall? For stereo listening I'd give them more room.

My understanding is the script is a surround speaker with compromises on the woofer end which would explain it sounding a little thin.

Is the imaging correct? I mean...do the speakers disappear when listening to music?

 

[gordonmenninger]

I agree with PMlover above. Get rid of the Emotiva - it is on the level of a midrange sony receiver. Also I would probably use the Scripts for surround duty since they are an on wall speaker and that is a compromise for sure! Probably not the answer you were looking for but that's how it is!~:rocker:

 

[invenio]

I agree with PMlover above. Get rid of the Emotiva - it is on the level of a midrange sony receiver. Also I would probably use the Scripts for surround duty since they are an on wall speaker and that is a compromise for sure! Probably not the answer you were looking for but that's how it is!~:rocker:

I agree with this. How close are the speakers to the wall? Electrostats are super sensitive to this and you may find that bringing them a couple of feet off the wall (yes couple of feet, I have mine 5 feet off the front walls) may give you more of a dramatic improvement in sound quality than buying new preamps/amplifiers or even a slight upgrade in the ML line.

 

[ejn1111]

Thanks for the feedback. The Script-i's are on wall which as I understand it is how they are designed. They dont even come with a stand to mount away from the wall. I had to go with the scripts as I have a wall-to-wall av cabinet about 30 in high that runs under a 113in screen. So I can't have floor standers for mains (i would have preferred this for sure). My theory was that the scripts are light on the low end so not full range and would need the sub (just like a bookshelf) but above 80Hz that they should be fine. Once again, Im very happy for HT, just music is still work in progress.

I agree the Emotiva is not the holy grail but not sure I agree its equivalent to a Sony mid-range receiver. I have a high end Denon Receiver and it's a step up when paired with a good amp IMHO. But understand fully its not the strongest link in the chain. Its on my upgrade list for the future.

Sounds like the Scripti's just dont have the dynamic range needed for good music listening even though ML said they are fine for Mains in normal size rooms.

 

[ejn1111]

Gordon, I'm in incredible envy of the 2 F113's! you must be a happy guy. I'm going to upgrade my old Velodyne with the SVS SB13Plus which is poor man's version of a F113. Very nice set up you have!

 

[Spike]

1. Get a 2-channel pre-amp with HT bypass and move the Emotiva to HT duty (which is what it was designed to do).
2. Upgrade to bigger ML models for L/R mains.

Good Luck,
Spike

 

[tompa]

Could it be that they are mounted too high? I think I understood you to say that they are on a 30" cabinet, or are they on the sides of the cabinet? If they are mounted high, then the woofer is what you'll listen to whan you are seated. Does the sound improve if you are standing? Take a look at the dispersion projection here (pp12-16)http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manuals/manual_script_i.pdf Alternatively try moving them out from the wall (how deep is your cabinet?) temporarily to see if there is any improvement. It shouldn't be too hard to have a set of brackets fabricated to give them more air.

 

[ejn1111]

Could it be that they are mounted too high? I think I understood you to say that they are on a 30" cabinet, or are they on the sides of the cabinet? If they are mounted high, then the woofer is what you'll listen to whan you are seated. Does the sound improve if you are standing? Take a look at the dispersion projection here (pp12-16)http://www.martinlogan.com/pdf/manuals/manual_script_i.pdf Alternatively try moving them out from the wall (how deep is your cabinet?) temporarily to see if there is any improvement. It shouldn't be too hard to have a set of brackets fabricated to give them more air.

Hi, thanks for the reply... Due to the points you mention, they are mounted upside down so that the panel is at ear level when seated. Before I did this, ML confirmed that it shouldnt make any difference in SQ. The are also mounted on wall and slightly toed in. They are on the left and right sides of a 113 in screen. my cabinet is under the onwall mount so depth is not an issue but I think its around 24 in deep. I could try to get them off the wall more but my understanding is that these onwalls are specifically designed for on-wall placement. I do agree if they were out a little more than imaging may improved but as someone else stated that maybe this is one deficiency in stats (dynamics) vs cone speakers... I definately think though larger towers away from back wall would be a huge step up it appears but not in my cards due to the cabinet set up. My hope was having the sub to round out the lower end would achieve a similar effect as this was the case with my prior bookshelves.

 

[Rickk]

That's it! Your music is coming out upside-down! Just put your listening seat on the ceiling! Problem solved...

 

[ejn1111]

That's it! Your music is coming out upside-down! Just put your listening seat on the ceiling! Problem solved...

Lol... or better yet, turn the house upside down then you dont have to figure out how to fasten the seat to the roof.

 

[shakham]

Lol... or better yet, turn the house upside down then you dont have to figure out how to fasten the seat to the roof.

You know it would be easier to just turn the speakers upside down .

 

[projectormovielover]

Lol... or better yet, turn the house upside down then you dont have to figure out how to fasten the seat to the roof.

It would be nice to see a picture of your room to get a better understanding

 

[MickeyVee]

Just a quick suggestion and possibly a cheap solution..
If the Emotiva has pre-outs and the sub has RCA inputs.. connect them! Switch the Emotiva to pure stereo bypassing all processing. Set the sub crossover manually on the unit.
I did this with my Rotel and the difference was outstanding.

 

[ejn1111]

It would be nice to see a picture of your room to get a better understanding

Understand. I will take a picture this afternoon and post it... Many thanks.