Mbl 116e?

[Gordon Gray]

As some of you may know, I'm love my Summits but have always had the "itch" to own a pair of MBL's.

I received an e-mail with the following offer.

Used 116E with some "dings". Total out of pocket, with trade in, is $5K plus my cost to ship Summits.

What do you all think? Seems like a very reasonable offer.

Justin?

GG

 

[tsv_1]

... have always had the "itch" to own a pair of MBL's.

My vote: scratch that itch!

 

[User211]

Hi Gordon,

Well I've no advice on the deal, the seller, the condition and the T&Cs of the sale etc.

All I can say is I have spent quite some time with 116Fs and they are very good. They don't sound anything like Summits, though.

I know that Jerry (my friend with the 116Fs) and I are in agreement about something - if you predominantly like classical, 116Fs are the better performer if your alternative is a pair of Apogee Duetta Sigs. I'd say that was true over an Ascent/Descent and Summits too.

But don't worry - they are great with other music types too - so if you want to rock out you can. They're just best with classical.

For the sort of music I prefer, I regard my Aps as substantially more preferable. I wouldn't trade them. But I do know if I liked classical I'd possibly get a pair.

They're very good at low levels with classical - and handle strings very well. But they'll go nice and loud too.

No panel worries either - that's a big plus. I believe the MBLs will just go on working without any trouble.

I assume the 116E is pretty similar to the 116F - certainly looks quite similar.

$5K. Not too bad. Can you listen to them? Have you heard 116E's before? Bit of a risk if you haven't as they are your ears - not mine!!!

Justin

 

[User211]

Here's my recount of my first visit to hear the 116Fs. Some MLOC members might like to read it. Here goes:

"Jerry kindly invited me round after dropping hints on this thread, so naturally I accepted.

After not sleeping well the night before, and a call to say I'd be late, I realised I had failed to re-charge my sat nav. I gambled on 25 minutes being enough for the GPS unit to last 25 minutes on the road, so I could use it for the difficult bit on the last stage of the journey. It paid off and I arrived one hour late. Still, no one has ever turned up here on time for a listening session - must be a Wammer "be late" thing.

Pitch Black's "South Of The Line" was played as a bass torture test, to see if the Graaf really could handle the MBLs. I was pretty suspicious that it wasn't really coping that well with it - in fact when Jerry gets his 500 Watt monos, this sort of thing won't present a problem. I'm 100% positive he will get more control down under with it. But it must be said the bass is so insane on that track, that it does excite rooms at substantial volumes.

However, nothing is perfect, and the Graaf was just fine with all the other stuff we listened too. Very good, in fact. I liked it a lot.

So what can be said about these MBL jobbies? Here goes:

1) They worked well with pretty much anything we threw at them. To me, this aspect is REALLY important. A system that only works well with one type of music is a deep no no for me.

2) The system as a whole portrayed high levels of perceived resolution.

3) It is quite spacy and airy sounding - due to the omni drivers and position of the bass cones to the side etc.

4) It is very dynamic and upfront sounding. We were sat 7 feet away from the speakers, however, so this will help emphasise any "up frontness". Whilst the dynamic drivers have lots of punch, this isn't a system that is so transient led that you tire of in in 30 minutes. On the contrary - it is engaging and it keeps you listening.

5) I actually thought I preferred the bass from the 116F to the 101E - the next MBL up. Might sound strange after the Pitch Black insinuation - but it really was fine with everything else. But I do believe the 101E is better in the mid/treble - but it costs so much more. I wouldn't pay the extra.

6) There's some quite nice layering and perception of depth and height coming from these speakers.

7) Pretty low on boxy colouration. A tap on the cabinets confirms they're pretty firmly put together. Boxy colouration should be low, though, as the mid/treble is free of the box entirely.

So we listened to a lot of CDs via the Talk, then we popped on Brothers In Arms on vinyl. Everyone knows that is a great recording, but it beat anything digital we had heard to my ears, albeit with a few clicks and pops.

Lesson learnt here - the Technics SL1210 is still a great deck (it brought back memories of my brother's one many years ago) with Jerry's special bodied Denon 103. I told him I thought it was an excellent cartridge - which it most definately is.

I recorded some of the Dire Straits via a Rowland Edirol HR digital recorder. Will be interesting to hear it later - I do this mad task as it really does capture stuff well and helps me remember what systems sounded like via some AKG 702s.

Could I live with the MBLs? Yup - I could - but they are very different to my Apogee Duetta Sigs.

When I got home, I fired up the Apogees immediately and as a matter of necessity and smiled. All is still well, I pondered Very different, but very definately still excellent - at least to me.

Hopefully Jerry will take up his invite and come round for a listen soon. A most enjoyable couple of hours. Thanks Jerry!"

 

[Gordon Gray]

Justin,

Thanks so much for the input.

As fate would have it, I listen to alot more classical and jazz than I do rock.

One comment you made that really caught my eye. I know it's not an easy issue to flesh out but please elaborate on your statement that the 116's do not sound anything like the Summits.

I've heard numerous MBL's at various trade shows and have always walked away astounded by the absolute effortless sense of space and dimensionality that these puppies project. This was true even in a very small room.

Having owned my Summits for some 5 years now, I obviously know their sound. And I still find them very musical and engaging.

So any help in articulating clear differences between the two products would be most appreciated.

Gordon

 

[User211]

I'm not sure I can easily do that, Gordon. Perhaps a way to give more is this. Jerry decided £60 class T (Tripath) amps were excellent with his MBLs so I went round with my 211s to check it out. Here's the story:

"First off, let me state that I’ve now heard Jerry’s MBLs with a Graaf 5050, the Mini-Ts and my own 211 monos. I now feel I know the MBLs fairly well.

I’ll just make a list of points as and when they crop up into my mind as I’m typing. They are simply honest comments since bending the truth helps no one. They are just what I thought/think. And they apply only to the marriage of the equipment involved.

1) Jerry played a lot of classical music while I was there. I now understand why he likes the MBLs so much – they do classical really, really well. With near field listening and volume levels at around 70 DB, as least as read by my iPhone (), the results are really good with strings. Much of what I heard simply doesn’t require much in the way of bass – so the Mini-Ts don’t get challenged in that department.

2) Do the Mini-Ts have enough power to drive the MBLs? In my book, absolutely not. They simply can’t muster the power to drive the MBLs to levels which I consider appropriate for my listening tastes. However, Jerry is happy enough with what they can manage.

3) We listened to a few tracks via the Mini-Ts before hooking up the 211s. The Mini-Ts didn’t sound like the Graaf of yore in any way, shape or form. They sounded pleasant, with reasonable resolution and very precise with their image placement. Clean overall, with little in the way of obvious colouration. I felt the bass to be lacking with some of the material we played – but not to the point of causing that much concern.

4) The fact is you’d need some pretty poor amps to make the MBLs sound bad, IMHO. They’re just really good speakers.

5) We plugged the 211s in, and got to our fave Eddie Louiss track pretty quickly. Instantly I heard the tape hiss present on this recording that I hadn’t really noticed it via the Mini-Ts. Also, the sound stage became much bigger, and ambient cues far more prevalent. A much more organic feel and for me, at least, that you were that much closer to hearing real kit in a real venue.

6) Turn the volume up via the 211s and it was obvious the MBLs were receiving what they needed – the loudness capability was much higher with the 211s. The bass was more prevalent and better controlled than with the Mini-Ts.

7) Turning to classical music and I felt the string tone was improved. Violins sounded more like real violins and again I felt much more of the feeling of the venue coming through.

8) I couldn’t isolate one area where I felt the Mini-Ts to be superior. This applies to classical, rock and pop – which in truth is all we tried. About the only thing I think you night stand a chance of arguing with me would be the precise etch-a-sketch image placement the Mini-Ts provide. But this could be due to the smaller, less airy soundstage they come up with.

9) Before I wrote this, I did tell Jerry I write up what I thought. Most of the above I said directly to him anyway.

My opinion of the MBLs has actually been raised a bar or two. I felt the 211/MBL combo to be a real success. I’ve not heard those MBLs sound as good as they did today. But then I’ve only heard them once before anyway. Damn fine speakers – especially for classical music lovers. If I shared Jerry’s taste in music, I’d have them over my own refurbed Apogee Duetta Signatures.

MBL 116F – mid-range/top end magic with strings and some decent tube amps, IMHO. But also capable enough in the bass to raise an eyebrow or two.

I hope this post has added some sanity to the Mini-T proceedings. I am in no doubt that these amps will NOT better more expensive/elaborate offerings. But for the money? Pretty damned good. As I said to Jerry before I left, the Mini-Ts produce very pleasant results with the MBLs – basically you could quite easily say “what is wrong with that?” and had you not heard any alternative with these speakers, you’d be a bit pushed to criticise.

If you asked me what I thought which were the better amps given the choice between the Mini-Ts and Behringer A500, I think I’d have to say Behringer A500. Wish I had taken it for a brief spin with the MBLs.

Message for Bob: take an amp with some power down with you – just in case (wink).

BTW: Jerry’s Wadia appears to be a very good CD player. Much better than the Wadia WT2000/X64 or whatever it was I had for a while years ago. Now that was, ahem, shite!"

 

[Gordon Gray]

Will be auditioning over X-mas vacation when I am back east visiting family.

Thank you Justin for your input.

GG