Is Summits & Descent I Bad Together?

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Twist

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I'm not sure if I made a huge mistake but I just changed order of Vantages to Summits (Chome AirFrame). Like I wrote in other threads I also got a Stage center, 4 Passages (rear & sides) and a Descent i sub. Man-o-man am I went crazy: I went from originally wanting the little Puritys to Vistas to Vantages and now to SUMMITS! I'm not sure how this is going to sound in my 20'Wx25'Lx9H room doing this 7.1 setup (60% Movies/40% Music). Is this too much, or was I better off with the Vantages like before? I now believe I must buy a 2 channel & 5 channel amp to get good results. Or can I still get away with a 7 channel amp without sounding so bad? I need to ask your guys professional opinions on this. PREAMP & AMP Recommendations would be helpful too. Thanks you guys are the best!

NOTE: I'm new to all this audio stuff and I'm trying to build a great system. The salesman at the store told me to use the just summits for music and the all the rest when I watch a movie. Thus the reason for 2ch & 5ch separate amps. Is this true??
 
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Look for a receiver with a HT pass- as for the rest, congrats on the HUGE purchase- you bought the best and you will love them. But the hard part is finding the amps that sound good to YOUR SETUP. Many people here can point you in the right direction but until you do an in-home demo then no one other than yourself can decide what amp setup is good for your.
Nik
 
As long as you can afford the greater cost of the Summits over the Vantages, you have made no mistake. They are great speakers and you will love them. They will work fine with the Descent i. I have a very similar setup: Summits, Stage, Clarities & Frescos for surrounds, and a descent. They are awesome together. My room is 14' x 19' by 9' so you should be fine in your larger room. I have a Meridian G68 Pre/Pro for home theater, with a Sunfire multichannel amp powering the center and surrounds, and I have an ARC Ref 3 preamp with Sanders Sound monobloc amps for the Summits on two-channel music.

With the quality of setup that you have, you will want to consider some room acoustical treatments at some point to get the best sound. Use the search feature on this forum to do some research on that and on amp / preamp recommendations. There are lots of discussions of both.

I agree with the advice of using a two-channel amp for the Summits and a five-channel amp for everything else. This does make it easier when watching music vs. home theater. There are tons of options here, so it is hard for anyone to recommend one particular brand. You will want to go with a high-current model from a quality manufacturer. Names to consider include BAT, ARC, CJ, Sanders Sound, Plinius, Pass Labs, Sunfire, Theta, Krell, Cary etc. etc. Lots of options. For bang for the buck, it is hard to beat Sunfire for multichannel. I am personally very fond of Sanders Sound and Pass Labs for two-channel; other folks love Plinius, CJ, BAT, and about a dozen other brands.

Then you will also need to consider a multichannel processor and two-channel preamp. For multichannel processor, again it is hard to beat Sunfire for the money. Also, Theta, Meridian, Cary, Krell, Adcom, Denon and others make outstanding products. For a two-channel preamp, again there are more options than can be listed. Look at all the names listed above and you will find many great preamps as well.

A few tips:

Don't feel like you have to get the perfect finished system right from the start. Upgrading along the way is part of the fun of this hobby. Concentrate on the areas that are most important to you and skimp a little on the areas that aren't. In other words, if movies are most important, get the best multichannel processor you can afford and skimp on the two-channel preamp. If music is most important, get the best two-channel preamp and amp combo you can afford and use a cheaper receiver to power the home theater. The areas you skimp on now you can upgrade later.

To throw a wrinkle in that plan, please note that it is a common theme on this forum that folks think they will use a room more for movies, but when the system is set up, it sounds so great that they end up spending a lot more time listening to music than movies. Something to consider.

Also, don't feel that you have to buy everything new from the dealer. Some of my best components I bought slightly used off of Audiogon or as dealer demos for 1/3 to 1/2 off of retail prices.

If you can put some room acoustical treatments in your room, it will improve the sound more, dollar for dollar, than investing in any really high-end component. Look up the sites for Real Traps or GIK acoustics if you are unfamiliar with room treatments. There are lots of threads on this forum discussing their benefits.

Make sure the two-channel preamp that you purchase has a home theater bypass with unity gain volume. What this means is that when you are in home theater mode, the preamp will take the signal from your surround processor and send it to your Summits and not add any volume control to it. That way your surround processor controls volume for all channels for movies. When you are listening to music, your two-channel pre will control the volume.

Good luck and have fun with it. Also, don't expect your speakers to sound perfect right out of the box. It takes a few hundred hours for your woofers to completely break in. Then you will get that awesome bass response the Summits and Descent i are capable of.
 
I agree totally with my friend Rich.

One very important thing that Rich alluded to is that you will need time for your ears to adjust / hear all the new musical information that will be presented. Once you are accustomed to the sound, you will be able to easily differentiate between any changes that result from a new interconnect, a new speaker position, rake angle, etc., etc.

Be patient and give it time. Make sure all your stuff is fully broken in before you start "playing" with positioning, wires, and such.

By the way, once properly set up and tuned in, you, the Summits, and the music will become one.

GG
 
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Rich, as usual, you give a very considered and complete answer.

Twich, all the above is great advice.

However, just to keep it lively, I’ll throw in a dissenting view regarding the need for dedicated 2ch vs mutlichannel amps and pre’s.

My opinion is if a multichannel processor can’t do 2ch well, then find a better processor.

Likewise for amps. In my view a great multichannel system should sound great anywhere from mono all the way out to 7.1 and everything in-between.

The added complexity (who though I’d be the one to bitch about complexity, eh? ;) ) is a barrier to usability and unless you are really into tweaks and fiddling with the system (like many of us are), you might find it tiresome. Never mind the challenge it poses for family members to use the system.

Therefore I would propose that rather than add complexity and cost with 2ch vs multi, just get a top notch multichannel solution and be done with it.

My personal recommendations are Meridian processors paired with Sunfire amps. Which strangely enough is what’s in my rig right now :)


Also, do consider the Denon AVP-HD1 preamp, I am. See this thread:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4575
 
Do you think this is a good choice?

Thanks for all you guy's help! On one of my previous posts someone recommended Emotiva. So I looked at their new upcoming amps the XPA-2 and XPA-5 (2 & 5 channel amps). WOW, the 2 channel does 500 watts @ 4 ohms and 5 channel does 375 watts @ 4 Ohms. I called and pre-ordered 2 of the XPA-2 (for Summits) and the XPA-5 for all the other speakers. The only thing is, I'm not sure about the quality of their preamps. They were recommending the LMC-2 over their flagship DMC-1. The LMC-2 is going to have HDMI 1.3 and DTS HD Master Audio but it looks so small on the homepage. Would I be making a mistake on getting that preamp/processor? I really like the new Denon PreAmp, but must I fork $7k for a good PreAmp?
 
Thanks for all you guy's help! On one of my previous posts someone recommended Emotiva. So I looked at their new upcoming amps the XPA-2 and XPA-5 (2 & 5 channel amps). WOW, the 2 channel does 500 watts @ 4 ohms and 5 channel does 375 watts @ 4 Ohms. I called and pre-ordered 2 of the XPA-2 (for Summits) and the XPA-5 for all the other speakers. The only thing is, I'm not sure about the quality of their preamps. They were recommending the LMC-2 over their flagship DMC-1. The LMC-2 is going to have HDMI 1.3 and DTS HD Master Audio but it looks so small on the homepage. Would I be making a mistake on getting that preamp/processor? I really like the new Denon PreAmp, but must I fork $7k for a good PreAmp?

When are you supposed to get the amps? Please post on your new amps when you get them... I find the Emotiva line interesting - to say the least... thx. tim.
 
"Summits and Descent i bad together?"...what are you crazy? They will be awesome together. There are only a few ways to bring the Summits up a notch and one of those ways is to augment them with a well matched sub and its hard to surpass the Decent i.

Another way to maximize thier performance is to match them with a clean, neutral amplifier that is capable of providing them with a beefy amplifier. Wattage is only one spec that indicates power. Another is current or amperage output. When choosing an SS amp, look for an amp that doubles in power as the ohms drop or at least maintains a close ratio. Tube amps can have relatively low power ratings but are typically stable with current power.

The two main speakers are most important with the Center Channel coming in second. A good 2 channel amplifier will serve the pair of main speakers well. With that you can follow up with a 5 channel amp for the remaining speakers and the sub will power itself.

That is a very nice system you're putting together and should be topnotch for quite a while. A good quality pre pro will serve you well for the range of 2 channel to 7.1 HT. I would consider the Krell HTS 7.1, an Anthem or Parasound to name a few. You can find great deals on models like these if you willing to buy a demo model or used. You won't have the latest features but I would opt for quality or modern features at this point. You can connect your video sources direct to the video monitor and use the analog outputs from your source component and one digital audio out. Less cables are involved this way with less degradation of the signal.

Chrome airframes are classy. It should be a nice envious system.
 
When are you supposed to get the amps? Please post on your new amps when you get them... I find the Emotiva line interesting - to say the least... thx. tim.

OF COURSE, NO PROBLEM. Do you think the new Denon PreAmp is going to be good with those 3 amps (mono+mono+5channel)??
 
OF COURSE, NO PROBLEM. Do you think the new Denon PreAmp is going to be good with those 3 amps (mono+mono+5channel)??

Twist, that Denon should be good with any amp. It has both balanced and regular RCA connections, so connectivity is not an issue.

The other thing to remember about that Denon is that for your $5K (you need to shop a bit) you get:

- A totally current multichannel preamp handles ALL current formats internally
- Top notch analog subsections
- A built in streaming playback service with full codec support so you rip all your CD's to a server as FLAC files and play them back via the Denon.
- Remote controllable and upgradable via network
- An HDMI switcher and kick-A$$ upscaling video processor
- A pro-level room correction system with both auto-setup and full support for professional calibration.

The sum of separate units that do all of the above at the level the Denon unit does is anywhere from $7 to $10K worth.

In my book, it's a total bargain and has very high usability (once configured).
 
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