TomDac
former MLO owner/operator
stricter gun laws are needed here in the US... Until our leaders do something about it, we can only sit back and watch as these events continue to happen.
Have we become comfortably numb
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
- Start date
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Dave,
I don't know what to say other than Colorado last week, California this week, where next week?
These incidents have become so frequent they encourage complacency and an absolute loss of control.
The US is worried about Syrian refugees? Really. They should be worried about who's next in the continuing merry go round of mass killings of innocent people in public places in the USA.
Gordon
PS: A work colleague told me he was driving on an interstate highway in Utah and saw an ad for an AR 15 on a "changeable posting" sign. These signs can be rented by anyone to post ads for whatever. Price $499. It does make one wonder about the absolute saturation of public availability of weapons in the USA designed for the military and mass killings.
A couple of other things that apparently come from reliable sources.
There have been 355 mass shootings in the US so far this year. A mass shooting is defined as four or more people being shot in a single incident.
Fifty times more Americans have been killed by gunfire than by terrorist attacks since 9/11.
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It really is a shame how some violent behavior seem to be common in otherwise so peaceful small country.
http://yle.fi/uutiset/finland_is_eus_second_most_violent_country_for_women/7120601
http://yle.fi/uutiset/paper_finlands_child_murder_rate_highest_in_the_west/5466450
Still when it comes to guns I really don't feel overly concerned about general safety due to strict ruling.
"In Finland, during the past ten years, the police bullets have killed three people. In Finland, the police use the gun rarely, and even when used, police often shoot warning shots. Between 2003 and 2013, the Finnish police fired a total of only 122 shots."
Kevin
Well-known member
If the answer is to make it harder for people to acquire guns, and to restrict the capabilities of the firearms they can acquire, then I would be more prone to support it if we also became stricter on the behavior of people in general. It seems that in almost all facets of life, we have created an environment of allowing people to become less personally responsible, and make up for it by making everyone pay the price for the behavior of others.
Homeowner insurance companies in many states, now have a long list of dog breeds they won't insure, because dog bites have become one of the largest sources of liability claims. Some cities and towns have recently banned certain breeds. It wasn't always the case, but some people now purchase certain breeds for their reputation, and raise them in an irresponsible way, and everyone pays a price for it. I have a Doberman, I have always had them, but I had a hard time getting homeowners insurance myself, despite of the fact that our dogs have always had the best dispositions. You just have to put in the effort to train, socialize, and correct any bad behavior from the beginning. But of course, not everyone does that. They don't even do that with their children now, why should they do it with a dog?
Obama, recently speaking of latest incident, made the following statement, "To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semi-automatic weapon? This is a matter of national security." Of course a terrorist suspect shouldn't have a gun, but why on Earth should a terrorists suspect even be allowed to potentially take a seat next to my family at the local theater? What is a terrorist suspect doing walking around free in our country?
Yes America has become numb.... and sick, but it involves much more than just firearms.
Homeowner insurance companies in many states, now have a long list of dog breeds they won't insure, because dog bites have become one of the largest sources of liability claims. Some cities and towns have recently banned certain breeds. It wasn't always the case, but some people now purchase certain breeds for their reputation, and raise them in an irresponsible way, and everyone pays a price for it. I have a Doberman, I have always had them, but I had a hard time getting homeowners insurance myself, despite of the fact that our dogs have always had the best dispositions. You just have to put in the effort to train, socialize, and correct any bad behavior from the beginning. But of course, not everyone does that. They don't even do that with their children now, why should they do it with a dog?
Obama, recently speaking of latest incident, made the following statement, "To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terrorist suspect to buy a semi-automatic weapon? This is a matter of national security." Of course a terrorist suspect shouldn't have a gun, but why on Earth should a terrorists suspect even be allowed to potentially take a seat next to my family at the local theater? What is a terrorist suspect doing walking around free in our country?
Yes America has become numb.... and sick, but it involves much more than just firearms.
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
I agree, Kevin. There needs to be a crackdown on personal responsibility. If an owner's dog bites someone, in a vicious attack, the owner should be held responsible. If the owner's dog kills someone, the owner should be treated as if he/she killed that person. Same goes for guns. If an owner's child steals his parent's gun and uses it to kill, the parent should be held as responsible as the child. Terrorist suspects are just that, suspects. Unless there is proof that person is a terrorist we can't just imprison that person, but we should be able to prevent that person from having legal access to a gun. Years ago, my neighbor had a pair of dobermans and they were the best trained dogs I've ever seen.
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
This just in...the NRA just proposed a bill, somehow backed by top Republicans, that according to Politico would "actually repeal longstanding law and invalidates many of the mental health records already in the system – all under the pretense of strengthening the system."
Kevin
Well-known member
Before the most recent attack, Obama was saying we had little to worry about when it comes to terrorist attacks on US soil. But I find that to be contradictory with the fact that suspected terrorists, in our country, not being on a "no gun list", is a national security issue. A suspect is someone who is believed to be guilty of something. If a person is believed to be a terrorist, I agree with the president that they shouldn't be able to purchase a gun. I just think we should do all we can, legally of course, to also make sure that person isn't able to walk into a crowded event with a bomb as well. We can do more, without placing them in jail. It would help if we had as many FBI employees as we do IRS employees. I'm not sure the president shares my view. He seems to be a bit mute when it comes to the threat of terrorists in the US in general, but a suspected terrorist with the ability to purchase a gun is suddenly a national security issue.
Whether it's criminals with prior histories, people with known serious mental health issues, kids misbehaving at school, aggressive and/or reckless driving, more people taking advantage of our generous welfare system, illegal immigrants or "suspected terrorists" living within our communities, I just see us growing more tolerant of irresponsible behavior with each passing year. Some of that behavior places all our lives in greater danger each day. So if stricter gun law enforcement is part of the answer, then so be it. I just don't see the point in cleaning up one room if we're content to leave the rest of the house so dirty.
Whether it's criminals with prior histories, people with known serious mental health issues, kids misbehaving at school, aggressive and/or reckless driving, more people taking advantage of our generous welfare system, illegal immigrants or "suspected terrorists" living within our communities, I just see us growing more tolerant of irresponsible behavior with each passing year. Some of that behavior places all our lives in greater danger each day. So if stricter gun law enforcement is part of the answer, then so be it. I just don't see the point in cleaning up one room if we're content to leave the rest of the house so dirty.
I guess my only question is... if a person is a suspected terrorist.... why are they allowed in the country in the first place? I mean if we are going to take away rights ... lets just do the whole nine yards and not allow individuals associated with any terrorist groups in any way - into the country..... Didn't they have the guys on the 911 tragedy on a 'list'? I mean WTF? I'm sick of this political correctness agenda pushing BS.....
Yep CLOSE the borders till it get sorted out, just like Trump said this morning!! France f'd it up and we obviously f'd up with those idiots in CA. No more in, sorry about your luck to the decent Islamics out there...the world has changed, the USA is no longer taking "The tired, the poor and the hungry", find another place to settle!!
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
Trump is a fascist, pure and simple. His ideas speak of bigotry and cowardice. It's un-American. It's clear that he and his followers have no idea what America stands for. Unfortunately, too many in our country have also forgotten. The fear and hatred against Muslims escaping certain death is due to fear and ignorance and hatred and bigotry. If you fall in with Trump, be man enough to admit your racism and bigotry and fascism.
France got it right!
They said we will not let the terrorists win and disrupt our lives. From the highest levels they have been saying conduct business as usual and don't give into fear!
Statistically terrorists are barely a pin prick. More people die in auto accidents on Thanksgiving in the US than in the Paris idiot attack and we take that in stride as part of being independent and choosing to drive on a day where there are more intoxicated people on the road than any other day. It is our "right" to climb in our cars even though we know there is danger involved.
Being scared and cowardly is not the American way that I used to be proud of.
14 of the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence were killed. 5 were captured and severely tortured and then killed by the British and another 9 died fighting against the British.
That didn't stop our resolve!
We need to welcome the Syrian refugees and show them what America is made of. The vast majority of them are good people. The terrorists are specifically trying to make it look like the Syrian people fleeing from the war are not to be trusted. We need to not let the terrorists win!
They said we will not let the terrorists win and disrupt our lives. From the highest levels they have been saying conduct business as usual and don't give into fear!
Statistically terrorists are barely a pin prick. More people die in auto accidents on Thanksgiving in the US than in the Paris idiot attack and we take that in stride as part of being independent and choosing to drive on a day where there are more intoxicated people on the road than any other day. It is our "right" to climb in our cars even though we know there is danger involved.
Being scared and cowardly is not the American way that I used to be proud of.
14 of the 56 people who signed the Declaration of Independence were killed. 5 were captured and severely tortured and then killed by the British and another 9 died fighting against the British.
That didn't stop our resolve!
We need to welcome the Syrian refugees and show them what America is made of. The vast majority of them are good people. The terrorists are specifically trying to make it look like the Syrian people fleeing from the war are not to be trusted. We need to not let the terrorists win!
Kevin
Well-known member
I don't remember France behaving the way you do, what I remember shortly after the Paris attack was Hollande quickly closing the borders and issuing out a state of emergency within all of France. He also proceeded to greatly increase their air campaign against ISIS, conducted hundreds of raids on anyone that France had ever "suspected" (there's that word again) of any terrorist involvement. He addressed Parliament by stating “We are in a new era”, and proceeded with asking them to consider changing France's constitution to allow greater power to fight domestic terrorism.
France has actually had an on going problem with it's Muslim population, and discussions were taking place about it long before the Paris attack. Didn't France even ban the wearing of the burqa in recent years? I know a woman who lived in France, and she told my parents that there were Muslim neighborhoods that she couldn't even cross through because of how they treat women. I'm sure there are calls out of France to remain strong in the face of terrorist threats, but I also see plenty of signs that they see the writing on the wall and are greatly concerned.
Also, here in the US, over 90% of refugees from the middle east are currently on welfare assistance of some sort, but at least we are flush with money. So bring them on.
France has actually had an on going problem with it's Muslim population, and discussions were taking place about it long before the Paris attack. Didn't France even ban the wearing of the burqa in recent years? I know a woman who lived in France, and she told my parents that there were Muslim neighborhoods that she couldn't even cross through because of how they treat women. I'm sure there are calls out of France to remain strong in the face of terrorist threats, but I also see plenty of signs that they see the writing on the wall and are greatly concerned.
Also, here in the US, over 90% of refugees from the middle east are currently on welfare assistance of some sort, but at least we are flush with money. So bring them on.
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Also, here in the US, over 90% of refugees from the middle east are currently on welfare assistance of some sort, but at least we are flush with money. So bring them on.
Kevin, say it isn't true ................. if so , it disgusts me.
Dave, I mean ....be disgusted. What do you expect from a group of people that leave everything behind because of a crisis? Now wrestle with the socio-economic issues we discuss related to crime. Sounds like a plan for success doesn't it?
What have I ever said would make you think I'm racist, a bigot or a fascist? Please enlighten me. Times have changed my friend, The American way is/was "bring them on", now that means letting in radical Islamic terrorist with an agenda to kill as many as they can in a most brutal way! I live foe America and I'm sickened by the way the country has fallen lately. I voted for Obama the first time because we needed a change from the warlord hand puppet Bush who sucked the treasury dry! Man was I wrong! We got a bigger problem with Barack now, who do you think is whispering in his ear besides Michelle?
Trump is saying what many folks feel needs to be done, he might not say it in the nicest way but...these are not nice times any more. \\
I have no problem backing his policies so call me what you want...
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When Bernie wins the election we may actually see some positive change!
< duck and cover >
< duck and cover >
slowGEEZR, I've been thinking about your post now for several hours and, I'm man enough to look the other way from your unabashed Flame of a fellow member. How dare you sir! Rude!! You need a time out bud.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Hi Stu,
May I humbly suggest that the DON has voluntarily chosen his divisive, over the top,"flaming" rhetoric and there are some who agree with it and many, many more who do not. I include myself in the "many" group.
I see Steve's response to your post as quid pro quo.
Gee, he postponed his trip to Israel. And the British Parliament is going to debate whether or not he should be allowed to visit England.
I wonder why.
Best,
GG
PS: Frankly, I think the DON needs a time out.
May I humbly suggest that the DON has voluntarily chosen his divisive, over the top,"flaming" rhetoric and there are some who agree with it and many, many more who do not. I include myself in the "many" group.
I see Steve's response to your post as quid pro quo.
Gee, he postponed his trip to Israel. And the British Parliament is going to debate whether or not he should be allowed to visit England.
I wonder why.
Best,
GG
PS: Frankly, I think the DON needs a time out.
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What the Don has done is handed the presidency to Democrats, and let the world know that a significant number of Americans are scared, paranoid and want to blame someone else for our troubles.
Many many thanks slowGEEZR and RCHeliGuy for your moral support and sympathy for refugees. Music to my ears.
It's good to know that there are members who do not allow hate to do the talking or hate get the better of them.
USA has to take extreme care that terrorist do not enter USA along with innocent refugees. This needs to be done to prevent a France like incident from taking place in USA.
It's good to know that there are members who do not allow hate to do the talking or hate get the better of them.
USA has to take extreme care that terrorist do not enter USA along with innocent refugees. This needs to be done to prevent a France like incident from taking place in USA.
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