Has ML got a QC problem these days?

[benleeys]

Of late, been reading about reports of problems with new ML products, eg. woofers humming, faulty panels, etc. Have even seen with my own eyes a CLX with poor external finishing (loose trimmings and spotty paintwork) and faulty woofer panels.

Question is, has the QC standard at ML degraded somewhat since Gayle retired from it? Or is this situation normal all the time? IMHO, excellent aftersale service cannot make up for marketing substandard products.

 

[Len44]

I'd hate to think Martin-Logan's very high manufacturing quality might be slipping. Can't imagine such a thing if Gayle Sanders was still in charge...

Might be appropriate for a response on this forum from M-L.

 

[C.A.P]

I do not think having Gayle gone has anything t do with it. Martin Logan just like any company has employees and may be they had a turn over of them in the panel making area. May be they just had a bad run of luck. Who knows. This I do know they are a first rate company that will stand behind its products until you are happy. The internet and sites like these exploit every small issue as its heard and seen by many. Why do you think they do not participate in the site on a day to day basis. Spreading propaganda like this does no good and only makes things worse. If you have had no issues and such why complain. As for the finishing jobs on the CLX Martin Logan has a first class wood shop that does excellent work. You ever though that the CLX are traveling demo speakers that were beaten to death by shipping. Sure somethings will get loose. Maybe even chipped. Do not come on here and disparage them with unknown facts or rumors. It only makes you look bad!

 

[Len44]

Holy Cow!!! It was just a thought.

But, never mind. I'll shut-up and be on my way...

 

[benleeys]

.... Do not come on here and disparage them with unknown facts or rumors. It only makes you look bad!

CAP,

You accuse me wrongly.

My comments come mainly on account of first hand experience, not "unknown facts or rumors". The new Descent i sub I acquired had a hum so loud such that the auto shutdown (in the absence of a signal) did not work. Its LFE balance socket was so loose, the interconnect kept popping out from the vibration. Internally, the wire clips connecting the speaker units to the circuit board were so loose, you could actually dislodge them with just one finger. The CLX's poor finishing and panel problem, like I said, I saw with my own eyes at the dealer's showroom. Since it wasn't working, I could not get to listen to it and came away disappointed. And what about the member who recently got a working set of Quest replacement panels after 4 tries?

I hope ML monitors this forum. At least they'll get to know its customers are unhappy with their built quality and, hopefully, will make every effort to correct the situation. It has got great top class products, otherwise I won't be owning a full ML speaker system for HT and I surely have every right to be concerned, don't you agree?

 

[twich54]

The new Descent i sub I acquired had a hum so loud such that the auto shutdown (in the absence of a signal) did not work. Its LFE balance socket was so loose, the interconnect kept popping out from the vibration. Internally, the wire clips connecting the speaker units to the circuit board were so loose, you could actually dislodge them with just one finger.

Ben, Keep in mind , FWIW, the sub is made in China and while supposedly each and every one is tested @ Lawrence, Ks prior to shipping to dealers, well as the bumper sticker says........"Chit Happens" !

Also, FWIW, my one year old velodyne DD-15 took a dump earlier this summer. Internal ICE amp went south. Velodyne had it examined / replaced in a weeks time.

None of us like to have parts of our gear go south, but think it is a small percentage, and yes maybe there is something to be said for manufacting dates (Mondays, vacation schedules, etc) that have a bearing on this. But as stated before M/L's post purchase support is second to none !

 

[FISH_MAN]

Do I smell the competitor ?

these types of post's seem suspicious.

 

[Jungle Jack]

Hello,
I have owned Martin Logan's for over ten years beginning with the Aerius i's. I currently own Vantages, Montages, and a Cinema i. While I love the sound, I believe that Benleeys's question is valid. Especially given the ownership change.

However I want to slice it, my Vantages measure 3db's off. I switched locations to ensure room interactions were minimized. Furthermore, I feel as though the veneer will peel if I stare at it too intently. Unfortunately, there are areas where the veneer on the cabinets are peeling.

If it was a $1000.00 speaker, I would be more forgiving. For a 5k+ speaker, I am quite disappointed. My Aerius i's have survived multiple moves and multiple years across the Country with no damage.
Cheers,
ML

 

[Len44]

Allow me to amplify my earlier "Holy Cow!!!" response...

For the record, I own (quite proudly, I must add) three pair of Martin-Logans -- and I absolutely LOVE them!

Aeon i, Ascent i, and Summits. So, as far as I am concerned I am in audio nirvana. :music: I had one quick question from ML service about three months ago, and it was answered (Jeff) quickly, correctly, and it resolved a minor concern I had (ground loop -- nothing to do with ML per se, yet Jeff took the time to answer).

So, I am quite the fan, and will without doubt remain quite loyal to ML going forward. What I intended in my earlier post was that I didn't want to see something put out there without ML having a good opportunity to address it. I truly wish ML no harm whatsoever.

I hope this puts to rest any "suspicions" or other concerns regarding my earlier post... :cheers:

 

[Tifosi]

The internet and sites like these exploit every small issue as its heard and seen by many. Why do you think they do not participate in the site on a day to day basis. Spreading propaganda like this does no good and only makes things worse. If you have had no issues and such why complain....Do not come on here and disparage them with unknown facts or rumors. It only makes you look bad!

Unbridled, baseless criticisms which rise to the level of witch hunts can damage a mfr's business if the witch hunt is sufficiently pernicious and protracted. In that event, unfounded criticisms take on a 'truth' by their very repetition. Certainly, that type of unwarranted, critical conduct should be condemned...condemned for the damage unjustifiably inflicted. But, that is NOT the case here. A fairly tepid inquiry/concern re: QC is posed by this thread. If an increasing number of QC problems are starting to manifest due to outsourcing (e.g., construction of components in China, or elsewhere) or other reason(s) (e.g., personnel turnover), these are issues which can and should be discussed (and drawn to ML's attention). In that regard, if ML doesn't perceive a need for corrective action none is likely to be taken. However, if legitimate concerns or complaints are aired, an astute mfr will seek corrective change to preserve its customer base - something good for ML and its enthusiasts.

My two cents: you do a disservice to ML by attempting to squelch threads like this. But hey, that's only my opinion.

 

[User211]

Part of the reason this site exists is so that ML owners with probelms can get them resolved. Therefore, if someone has a problem, there is a good chance they will make a post here.

This just has the effect of making MLs seem less reliable than they are. Don't forget there will be 1000s of very happy people out there who won't mutter a word, simply because they are happy.

 

[David Matz]

If an increasing number of QC problems are starting to manifest due to outsourcing (e.g., construction of components in China, or elsewhere) or other reason(s) (e.g., personnel turnover), these are issues which can and should be discussed (and drawn to ML's attention). In that regard, if ML doesn't perceive a need for corrective action none is likely to be taken. However, if legitimate concerns or complaints are aired, an astute mfr will seek corrective change to preserve its customer base - something good for ML and its enthusiasts.

My two cents: you do a disservice to ML by attempting to squelch threads like this. But hey, that's only my opinion.

My take on things is for people to post their individual issues to be addressed on this board rather than to make generalized statements, which could unfairly smear ML's reputation. A few vivid horror stories in individual posts can easily spur an organization to correct any issues.

ML manufactures thousands of speakers, and some things are likely to go wrong. Most here find their service department extremely helpful.

I do believe that ML is doing themselves a disservice by not posting and participating on this site. They can help shape the conversation or have the information in the posts shape them.