Do you have to explicitly break-in electrostatic speakers?

[remoteportal]

Another newby question...

On page 7 of the Vista manual it says that I need to break-in my speakers for 72 hours @ 90Db. Do I have to purposefully do that or just through casual listening will this happen slowly over time? I'm in no particular rush... (but I think they are sounding better all the time!)

Sorry for the stupid question,

Pete
Charlotte, NC

 

[Adamo]

Casual listening will do fine, or playing it continuously over a couple days. The reason for the higher db is so that the stat panel gets to flex a bit. Even with casual listening this will happen.

 

[VanDaRo]

Another controversial question... Ideas about break-in are about as varied as those about interconnects and speaker wire. The controversy with break-in centers around what is being broken in: the equipment or the listener.

For manufacturers to claim that you need 100 hours of break-in protects themselves (in an indirect way). If you don't like what you hear on day one, you'll get "used" to it and the sound will grow on you. This claim might prevent unnecessary complaints and returns, saving them big money all the while playing to the superstitious nature of audiophiles.

On the other hand, maybe there actually is a physical or electrical "settling" that occurs with new HiFi equipment. I cannot claim to have ever witnessed striking changes in sonic performance due to break-in. But I'm sure as hell not going to discount the possibility. After all, I'll swear on a stack of Bibles that I can hear the difference between cheap and "speciality" cables....

But to address the question head on. Treat your new gear like a high performance car or motorcycle. Expect 99% of breaking in to be done within 20 hours of operation. This is roughly equivalent to running-in the engine of your beloved new vehicle for 1000 miles.

So I say stick with the 20 hour rule, not ridiculous manufacturer or magazine editor claims of "weeks" or "1000 hours of pink noise".

And do it by using the speaker to provide background music... with the occational listening session thrown in.

~VDR

 

[ralflar]

I don't think that the question is controversial as far as speakers are concerned. Electronic components, cables - yes.

 

[amey01]

Casual listening will do fine - as long as it's at that dB level or greater. The thing to remember is that you'll get 90% of the way there in the first 100 hours - you'll notice subtle improvements further on.

 

[Craig]

What I've noticed is that the speakers and some electrical components can take quite some time to sound their best. I recently had a mono amp repaired and job included a pair of new toroid transformers. After finally getting the amp back from repair I installed it in my system, powered it up and sat back to listen. It sounded bright and generally just not very good at all. Fortunately, it didn't take long for it to start sounding much better.

The changes in sound during the just the first hour was very distinct. There is no doubt in my mind that break-in is not an illusion. Not only did my wife and I hear a gradual improvement in sound we could even smell the new electronics break-in. Really! There was slight odor coming from the amp for a short period as it warmed up for the first time. I kept a close watch to see if this smell was going increase but it eventually went away after a few hours. The new transformer literally "cooked off" whatever new film, adhesive, oil or whatever it was. This was the most extreme case of a component break-in process that I ever experienced.

I've owned several different models of electrostats over the past few years and each one very gradually changed in sound over an extended period of time. These changes were very subtle and it literally took months to settle down and play consistently well. I didn't do anything special like play them loud or play them continuously for days to expedite the break-in process, just played at normal levels when I felt like listening. It takes a long time to reach 100-200 hours of playing time. For me, that's at least 6 months.

I don't know if it is possible to quantify or qualify a speaker break-in or improvement in sound over a long time period. It's a very subjective thing and I'm sure the ears adjusting to the sound characteristics of a speaker is possible. But the 1 hour break-in of the amp in this case was clearly real. And I remember my Summits sounding bright the first couple of days when they were brand new out of the box.

But to answer your question, you don't need to do anything explicitly to break-in your speakers. They eventually break-in on their own in time regardless.

 

[raygunn]

Craig, I couldn't agree more...

The break-in effect occurs with everything and it is as evident as changing out one component for another.
I have developed a couple of protocols over the years that I follow with everything in the system.

In the case of brand new panels or speakers, before any serious listening, face the speakers to each other and I play the Stereophile Cacaphony track on their test CD in repeat mode for a week to 10 days.
I face them to each other to cut down on how much you actually hear, since it can be pretty annoying if you do not have a dedicated room to close this off from the rest of the house.

In the case of cables, I have an old crappy JVC CD player that I rig up to a crappy receiver (you could use anything with an RCA input), and I run the same stereophile cacaphony CD track for the number of days that approximates the hours needed for burn-in.

For Phono preamps, I use the same old JVC CD player I use, has a headphone jack with a volume control, so I rigged a cable from 1/4 phone jack to a pair of RCA females. This I use to cut down the output levels of the CD track in order to approximate the output level of a phono cartridge and I run it in repeat mode for as long as needed.

On preamps and power amps, I do the same thing but I don't worry about cutting down the output levels.

This type of rig is a great timer-saver and saves your ears from the annoyance of ever-changing sonic characteristics of new components.

What I've noticed is that the speakers and some electrical components can take quite some time to sound their best. I recently had a mono amp repaired and job included a pair of new toroid transformers. After finally getting the amp back from repair I installed it in my system, powered it up and sat back to listen. It sounded bright and generally just not very good at all. Fortunately, it didn't take long for it to start sounding much better.

The changes in sound during the just the first hour was very distinct. There is no doubt in my mind that break-in is not an illusion. Not only did my wife and I hear a gradual improvement in sound we could even smell the new electronics break-in. Really! There was slight odor coming from the amp for a short period as it warmed up for the first time. I kept a close watch to see if this smell was going increase but it eventually went away after a few hours. The new transformer literally "cooked off" whatever new film, adhesive, oil or whatever it was. This was the most extreme case of a component break-in process that I ever experienced.

I've owned several different models of electrostats over the past few years and each one very gradually changed in sound over an extended period of time. These changes were very subtle and it literally took months to settle down and play consistently well. I didn't do anything special like play them loud or play them continuously for days to expedite the break-in process, just played at normal levels when I felt like listening. It takes a long time to reach 100-200 hours of playing time. For me, that's at least 6 months.

I don't know if it is possible to quantify or qualify a speaker break-in or improvement in sound over a long time period. It's a very subjective thing and I'm sure the ears adjusting to the sound characteristics of a speaker is possible. But the 1 hour break-in of the amp in this case was clearly real. And I remember my Summits sounding bright the first couple of days when they were brand new out of the box.

But to answer your question, you don't need to do anything explicitly to break-in your speakers. They eventually break-in on their own in time regardless.

 

[Joey_V]

Not sure what I believe in with regards to break in.

I had a speaker a while back, I thought it was beginning to sound a tad better/more coherent with time. Then one of the cabinets showed wear, so I got a replacement. Replacements came and the both sets of speakers sounded the EXACT same.

I gave up on the idea.

However, if break in does exist, it's probably a combo of some slight actual component break in and quite a bit psychoacoustics.

Joey

 

[Joey_V]

So I say stick with the 20 hour rule, not ridiculous manufacturer or magazine editor claims of "weeks" or "1000 hours of pink noise".

They say that so that by the time you break in your speakers, it's too late for you to return the item if you still don't like it post-break in.

LOL.

 

[tonepub]

Actually the component break-in side of the equation depends a lot on what kind of capacitors are under the hood of any electronic device. I've seen electron microscope images of how the electrons actually make a pathway through the dialectric, much like wearing down a foot path on the grass.

The big issue is usually with teflon caps, and they usually take 3-500 hours to sound their best. The dialectric of a teflon cap looks different at new, 100, 200 and 500 hours.

Every piece of gear we've ever reviewed that is full of teflon caps (modwright, CJ, BAT, ARC, Aesthetix and a few others) usually sound pretty dreadful right out of the box. Just for laughs, Dan Wright at Modwright let me have a pair of preamps so we could prove this to the uninitiated.

We ran one preamp for 500 hours and left the other in a box. After almost a month of play time, we A-B'd the two units that were identical and the difference was almost shocking.

Most of the run of the mill stuff is usually about 20 - 50 hours. Sometimes a mfr will put 20-50 hours on a component before shipping it, so this is less apparent.

My experience with speakers has been 20-100 hours for the most part, but as many of you have mentioned with Summits, that it does take a bit longer. It really depends on how much time you can play them continuously too.

One of the major reasons that a new pair of speakers doesn't sound quite like what you heard at the dealer (or the pair they let you take home) is that the new ones you buy aren't fully broken in.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Actually the component break-in side of the equation depends a lot on what kind of capacitors are under the hood of any electronic device. I've seen electron microscope images of how the electrons actually make a pathway through the dialectric, much like wearing down a foot path on the grass.

The big issue is usually with teflon caps, and they usually take 3-500 hours to sound their best. The dialectric of a teflon cap looks different at new, 100, 200 and 500 hours.

Every piece of gear we've ever reviewed that is full of teflon caps (modwright, CJ, BAT, ARC, Aesthetix and a few others) usually sound pretty dreadful right out of the box. Just for laughs, Dan Wright at Modwright let me have a pair of preamps so we could prove this to the uninitiated.

We ran one preamp for 500 hours and left the other in a box. After almost a month of play time, we A-B'd the two units that were identical and the difference was almost shocking.

Most of the run of the mill stuff is usually about 20 - 50 hours. Sometimes a mfr will put 20-50 hours on a component before shipping it, so this is less apparent.

My experience with speakers has been 20-100 hours for the most part, but as many of you have mentioned with Summits, that it does take a bit longer. It really depends on how much time you can play them continuously too.

One of the major reasons that a new pair of speakers doesn't sound quite like what you heard at the dealer (or the pair they let you take home) is that the new ones you buy aren't fully broken in.

Post of the day!

 

[C.A.P]

anyone who has replaced panels will tell you about break in. I hated the new panels on my Quests at first. I thought that something was wrong ! They were harsh and thin. In 3 months it was night and day !

 

[VanDaRo]

My Sequel II's new panels actually sound really, really good. The top of the audible band is a bit on the hot side -- kind of like listening to a really good box speaker with energetic tweeters (like Thiel). Yet it is not fatiguing...

It's a minor issue, only noticeable with special effects or synthesizers in popular music. If my suspicions and the opinion of this board are right, that "hot" characteristic will fade with break-in hours.

~VDR

 

[raygunn]

Premature buyer's remorse is my friend...

..........
One of the major reasons that a new pair of speakers doesn't sound quite like what you heard at the dealer (or the pair they let you take home) is that the new ones you buy aren't fully broken in.

SHHHHHH. This is the reason why there is always really good stuff on the used audio sites. People get buyer's remorse without really actually hearing what they bought!! Luckily there are still enough people with flush bank accounts out there that get this chronic buyer's remorse so that I can take advantage of their "misfortune" in the used market. :rocker: