Depth vs Depthi audible differences?
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I can't speak to their sound, because I haven't heard them. But looking at their specs, there just doesn't seem to be that much difference between them. Basically, the depth i internal amplifier puts out a little more continuous wattage (350 vs. 300) and peak wattage (900 vs. 500). So it is probably a little tighter and distortion-free when pushed really hard. I have a descent and love it, but I have been tempted to upgrade to the descent i for the extra power.
As Rich indicated, they're not different sonically, and you wouldn't push it hard because when using it w/ a CLS you only need it to operate below 30 or 35 Hz.
Functionally, the original version works best for me because the i has its controls on top which physically wouldn't work in my setup (see system pics)
And then theres the fact that the original model is a really good buy right now ;-)
roberto
Well-known member
Hola...to my ears, the new Depth i is better. It has less bass distortion (the Depth is one of the cleanest subs on the market) and ML improved this feature with the i version. Also there are cosmetic differences and the volume knob goes up to 11!!! It has a new power amp too. Happy listening,
Roberto.
:music:
Since the Depth is a subwoofer only, one certainly wouldn't expect it to have any "bass distortion"
unless over-driven. Especially not when combined with a CLS, where it's adding just a minimum amount below 35Hz. There's certainly no reason to spend the money on a new model i for this application unless one simply likes the top controls.attyonline
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Would not expect distortion then either since the Depth has a servo controlled system that pretty much eliminates distortion.
roberto
Well-known member
here is a demo of the Depth i...
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=14971&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0
Here are some sub-woofers test made by non commercial reviewers. The Depth is here and will show its distortion when it is compared to others, and it is one of the best, no matter the cost. The (i) means improved!...bigger amp and more convenient design. Happy listening,
Roberto.
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=14971&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0
Here are some sub-woofers test made by non commercial reviewers. The Depth is here and will show its distortion when it is compared to others, and it is one of the best, no matter the cost. The (i) means improved!...bigger amp and more convenient design. Happy listening,
Roberto.
Thanks Roberto! That's an interesting study. However, please note that to produce any significant distortion (meaning distortion you might actually hear) it was necessary for them to crank that poor little thing up to 90dB! If that's the kind of SPL one wants to get (not me!!) I'd recommend this:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/wilson_xs_sub.htm
nsgarch,
90dB isn't all that loud when attempting to recreate a symphony orchestra at triple forte levels. Peaks in the hall can easily reach 96-98dBs and be sustained for a good period of time. Large organs (Disney Concert Hall comes to mind) can easily sustain 95dBs. If you only listen to music with a narrower dynamic range, than yes, a sustained 90dB is quite loud.
roberto
Well-known member
Hola, but the cost of the Depth is almost the 10% of the cost of this sub...it is like a Porche versus a McLaren...don't you think so? (The XS retails for $18,200 in standard finish without a crossover or power amplifier -Wilson will supply a crossover for an additional $4000) ...as you can see at the test, Martin Logan Depth is a clean winner, even with subs that are twice the price or more!...the distortion is less and the frequency response is one of the best too. Now, regarding the set up, I am a very stupid person, because with my CLS IIz I can not set up any sub...when I say, there...,and I don't have any bass coloration, the musician(s) is at the stage, not next to me, I look at the knob of the sub and it is almost in No. 1 position (7 o'clock) and the sub is almost doing nothing. Of course that if I play organ music,(synthe or electronic music) I do need the sub, but this kind of music I don't listen it too much...perhaps only once a year or I don't listen to it at all. What I listen is jazz, or solo instrument, and the CLSIIz here in my room have all the bass that I need for this kind of music. When I listen to classical music, I listen concerts (piano, guitar, flute, violin, cello, harp, oboe, clarinet, and the orchestra is most camera music, not big orchestras, like Beethoven symphonies...I do play then not so often, what I like is mostly camera music...so I don't need really a sub. The bass energy that I get from my CLS are enough in my room and liking. Perhaps it is not the best bass available, I envy you guys, because you did it...you can listen your CLS with a sub. I said to myself, Roberto, it is better for you to have less bass in your own room, than be upseted with bass energy that does not belong to where the musician(s) is playing the bass at the stage, with the other musicians. I think all is a matter of liking the way to listen...trust your ears, as I do trust in mines. Happy listening,
Roberto.
Roberto, my suggestion for the XS was just for a laugh -- I don't think Wilson even makes it anymore. But I would suggest you try a Depth with your CLS, because only the slightest amount (a whisper) of assistance below 35Hz is required to create the impression of a truly full-range electrostat! You only need one in the middle (90deg. phase) -- (stereo directionality is not an issue under 80Hz) and you will be amazed at the illusion that all the bass is coming from the panels.
I'm not running the Depth as I don't have one, (YET) but my Sunfire is damn good and does exactly as Neil says. It creates the illusion of a full range system with out any localization. Mine is X over at 40 hz the lowest it will go on the sub. So basically your definitely not going to hear where it is located. I have never had a sub blend so well with any Logan's .
I asked Jim Power about the Depth and the Depth I his response was that they are very similar in sound and that the Depth I has a bit more headroom from the extra power. Aside from the cosmetics it would be a matter of taste and room size. The bigger the room the more power and bigger drivers like the DecentI
My take is that if the room were so big as to require more powerful bass, that two Depths would be a better solution than moving up to a single Descent. The reason is that the (smaller) drivers in the Depth are so quick, and match the stat's transients so perfectly.
However, that was before the Descent i, with its one amp per driver came out. It might now be a better match for the CLS than the original model, but I haven't heard one so I can't say. If it is (now a good match), that would still allow for the one-sub-in-the-middle configuration, which IMO is the best way to blend a sub with the CLS's.
roberto
Well-known member
God has being nice to me! I had being representing Martin Logan for over 21 years here in Costa Rica. So I had all ML line, unless the Statement. My power amp is an Audio Research VT-100 MK II and it gives me plenty bass. Can you tell me which musical note is below 35Hz? Yes, the last piano note on a Bossendorfer piano is 27.5 Hz, but how often this note is played in a work?...just few. And this is because these low notes are very difficult to be reproduced even at the best piano!, so you have the notes, but the piano player or the musicians do not play them at all. The big drums are above 40Hz, just the tuba, organ and believe or not, the harp can produce very deep bass. And again here, the organ is the only musical instrument capable to produce low bass notes with a good sound pressure level. Please, don't get me wrong here. As I said before, I envy you guys, because you can use a sub with your CLSs...I can not. My ears and perhaps my room, don't let me. When I was a kid, I was a bass player in a band, and studied classical guitar for over years. These could be a reason why I am so hard with the bass in my system. Again, I think it is my liking, and of course not necessary yours. Happy listening my friends,
Roberto.
That's a good point but mainly only applies to most classical instruments. What about modern forms of creating music with instruments such as Electric bass, pipe organ, synthsizer, electronic music, rock music. How los do Kettle Drums go? Hip Hop and Rap often fgoes that low with what ever intrument they use to creat that. I don't know and don't play that on my system...call me crazy but that's just me.
The Descent i and Depth i plays a low of 18Hz-20Hz and may only feel that by playing low freqy effects in a movie but that sub also plays up to 120Hz. Music within that range requires a lot of energy to properly hear and feel. Consider the classic ending of the orchestral song Tchaikovski's 1812 Overture. Doesn't the song end with a series of canons loudly firing in celebration?
Even though a speaker can go into the low ranges most can't play at the energy levels you can get from a sub. Summits and Vantages come close.
The Descent i and Depth i plays a low of 18Hz-20Hz and may only feel that by playing low freqy effects in a movie but that sub also plays up to 120Hz. Music within that range requires a lot of energy to properly hear and feel. Consider the classic ending of the orchestral song Tchaikovski's 1812 Overture. Doesn't the song end with a series of canons loudly firing in celebration?
Even though a speaker can go into the low ranges most can't play at the energy levels you can get from a sub. Summits and Vantages come close.
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roberto
Well-known member
Hola Craig...as I said before..."Of course that if I play organ music,(synthe or electronic music) I do need the sub, but this kind of music I don't listen it too much...perhaps only once a year or I don't listen to it at all"...so, I do not use a sub at all, when I am listening 2 channel stereo. The sub spoils my stage and size of the instruments. I rather like to have the bass a little weak very low notes than to have them to thick and out of proportion. As I said before, it is my liking and taste. Happy listening,
Roberto.
The main reason for wanting to try the Depth is the speed issue I'm using two Velodyne FX12s now which aren't bad subs but they do lag behind the CLS hopefully the Depth will do a better job. I do like the idea of the Depth i having the controls on top it makes it much easier if you'd like to tweak the sound for particular music. I might just try one Depth and see how it goes from there if you bring the sub in at 35 hz directionality shouldn't be an issue if any higher i don't know.
Instruments also generate subharmonics related to the fundamental tone and these are musically important IMO. To add to the list, the contrabassoon ~27 Hz, resultant stops on large pipe organs ~16 Hz are available and Mahler did use the lowest notes on the contrabassoon in his symphonies as did Strauss and Shostakovitch.
roberto
Well-known member
Yes, you are right!!!...I do know how important the bass is. All what I am saying, is that in my room and my liking, and with the help of a friend, at the volume knob, I start to say, a little less, a little less and when I say there!, the knob is almost complete at 7 o'clock position, in other words, no sub!. And I am very happy with the quality of the bass, I can listen the fingering and the right feeling of the bass player there, at the stage, not next to me!...with a sub, he is almost next to me in certain notes, these notes resonates in my room, making to loose the stage. So, to me again, I rather have less bass energy than loosing my stage. My CLSs gives a lot of bass, perhaps not the best, but enough for me and the type of music that I listen. As I said before, I love jazz and solo instrument most of the time. Of course that I listen symphonic music, but now only once and then...and I am very happy with my sound. I can understand the bass notes very easy...the fingering of the musican, and also have the right size of the instruments. When listening to a drummer, he is at the stage too, not having the bass drum next to me. This is all what I am saying. I envy you guys, really!!! Happy listening,
Roberto.
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