Dedicated 20 amp for music room?

[FOUNTAIN]

Ok, I have no idea here as to why or if a dedicated 20 amp circuit needs to be installed in my music room. In my current setup it is a 15 amp circuit with builder grade sockets. There are a couple of rooms on this breaker but these rooms have nothing plugged in except an alarm clock. So I don't believe there is much current being pulled away from the music room. However the voltage will vary on my Monster power center from 122 volts down to 117. I'm not sure if this is normal or not. Here are a few qestions that I have and are very elementary I'm sure.

Is a 15 amp circuit enough for my room?
Should I put only my room on this 15 amp breaker?
According to my monster power center my voltage drops as low as 117 volts. Will going to a dedicated 15 or 20 amp change this?
Should I change out the sockets? And if so, what should I use?
What should I tell the electrician to do if I need to change things?

There are probably other questions that I should ask but this will get me started.

Thanks a bunch.

Glen

 

[tonepub]

If you are at the build stage, go for the 20 amp circuit, I'd even do a pair if its easy and not too expensive. Always better to have too much power than not enough.

Definitely isolate this room if you can.

While you are at it, have your electrician check out how well your whole house is grounded, this can be a big noise issue as well.

117V is nominal voltage for most gear. A dedicated line may help this a bit.

You can change out the sockets if you are being extremely meticulous. It isn't going to make a huge difference, but depending on how much of a fanatic you are, every little bit adds something. You can go nuts and get a couple of outlets from Shunyata or Furutech, or you can just get hospital grade outlets from Home Depot.

Tell the electrician that he's your bitch and he should get to work pronto!

 

[tonyc]

Glen I just looked at your system. Sweet! You are way overdue for a dedicated line. I run Aeons in my HT system. I heard a big difference when I did my system and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than a major component upgrade.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

If you are at the build stage, go for the 20 amp circuit, I'd even do a pair if its easy and not too expensive. Always better to have too much power than not enough.

Definitely isolate this room if you can.

While you are at it, have your electrician check out how well your whole house is grounded, this can be a big noise issue as well.

117V is nominal voltage for most gear. A dedicated line may help this a bit.

You can change out the sockets if you are being extremely meticulous. It isn't going to make a huge difference, but depending on how much of a fanatic you are, every little bit adds something. You can go nuts and get a couple of outlets from Shunyata or Furutech, or you can just get hospital grade outlets from Home Depot.

Tell the electrician that he's your bitch and he should get to work pronto!

Well, I'm way past the build phase but I wish I had done this then. Will I have to rewire my music room for a 20 amp line or will it be as simple as adding an extra breaker in the fuse box? Or should I just keep it at a 15 amp breaker but on its on circuit? Thanks for all of your help.

Oh yea. I thoroughly enjoy your magazine. Keep them coming!

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Glen I just looked at your system. Sweet! You are way overdue for a dedicated line. I run Aeons in my HT system. I heard a big difference when I did my system and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than a major component upgrade.

Thank you tonyc for the compliment. However, I have Vantages now but have been too busy to post new pictures. I still have the Aeon's though and probably will sell them. They really are some great speakers and it will be hard to part with them. It appears that you are right that I'm overdue for a dedicated line. I decided 2 weeks ago to relocate my two channel setup into my home theater room and move out all of my home theater equipment. My wife and I hardly ever watch movies any more and that nice room was just going to waste while my two channel sat upstairs all couped up. So after some convincing we moved it downstairs and I bought several acoustic panels and placed them on the wall. I have been very busy with moving speakers and adjusting my seating. Now that I have finally settled on where it sounds best I began checking into a dedicated line; especially since the fuse box sits just a few feet on the other side of the wall to this room. Hopefully I'll finally get this part of the audio puzzle done and move on to a new cdp. The fun never stops!

 

[OldMonolith]

Hi Glen,

Let me see if I can add a few thoughts about your electrical situation....

The number of other things on the circuit might not be as important as the number of times the circuit is broke through other outlets before your system. The typical way it would be wired is a run from the box to the first outlet. There it's terminated to the outlet and then a second wire takes off to the next and so on. Often times, its a wrapped connection at a wire nut, shoved to the back of the box, with a tagged out wire to the outlet. So maybe you can see the point about the resistance in each point like this can cause voltage drop.

That said...to see your voltage vary may not be that out of the ordinary. You didn't specify if its a regular variance between those numbers, or a time of day fluctuation. When your AC and refrigerator kick in and out, they will load down the whole house circuit. Depending on the age, and the care of the original installer, some of the drop may be due to not so tight connections at the panel even. Electricians tell me that all connections should be snugged up every year or two. They can get a quarter turn tighter just about every time!

The best situation for a panel is if they bothered to shoot for evenly loaded. Heaviest loads split between the two sides and then the accumulation of smaller also pretty even. This can help keep it from getting radical loads occuring on one side only. That said, most equipment doesn't care too much about the exact line voltage value. Noise on the line matters much more!

I'm not at all saying do or don't do a dedicated feed, but trying to lay out some of the issues to think about in applying to the situation. They are very much a good thing to have, but it's a cost and trouble situation. BTW...the details in your pictures looks a whole lot like my place. Was your's built by Beezer Homes by any chance??

OldMonolith

 

[David Matz]

Well, I'm way past the build phase but I wish I had done this then. Will I have to rewire my music room for a 20 amp line or will it be as simple as adding an extra breaker in the fuse box? Or should I just keep it at a 15 amp breaker but on its on circuit?

Fountain,

I installed 2 20 amp lines with Hubbell hospital grade outlets. I had the electrician run 10 guage wire from the breaker to the outlets. It cost $250 for the job. To me it was one of the better bang for the buck upgrades. Comparing A/B to the old outlet which is just 6 inches from the new outlet, the music became more dynamic and had more detail, coming from a more quiet, darker background.

It was a no brainer for me, but your experience may be different. If it's not too expensive, I would definitely try it.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Hi Glen,

Let me see if I can add a few thoughts about your electrical situation....

The number of other things on the circuit might not be as important as the number of times the circuit is broke through other outlets before your system. The typical way it would be wired is a run from the box to the first outlet. There it's terminated to the outlet and then a second wire takes off to the next and so on. Often times, its a wrapped connection at a wire nut, shoved to the back of the box, with a tagged out wire to the outlet. So maybe you can see the point about the resistance in each point like this can cause voltage drop.

That said...to see your voltage vary may not be that out of the ordinary. You didn't specify if its a regular variance between those numbers, or a time of day fluctuation. When your AC and refrigerator kick in and out, they will load down the whole house circuit. Depending on the age, and the care of the original installer, some of the drop may be due to not so tight connections at the panel even. Electricians tell me that all connections should be snugged up every year or two. They can get a quarter turn tighter just about every time!

The best situation for a panel is if they bothered to shoot for evenly loaded. Heaviest loads split between the two sides and then the accumulation of smaller also pretty even. This can help keep it from getting radical loads occuring on one side only. That said, most equipment doesn't care too much about the exact line voltage value. Noise on the line matters much more!

I'm not at all saying do or don't do a dedicated feed, but trying to lay out some of the issues to think about in applying to the situation. They are very much a good thing to have, but it's a cost and trouble situation. BTW...the details in your pictures looks a whole lot like my place. Was your's built by Beezer Homes by any chance??

OldMonolith

Thank you OldMonolith. I'm glad you pointed out that each time a new socket is installed it breaks the circuit and adds resistance. I was not aware of this. If I understand this correctly then that means a new wire has to be ran from the fuse box to a new socket so that it is completly out of the loop from the others. Oh boy, there goes my wall!

P.S.
My home was built by someone different. For some reason the name escapes me right now, but it could be the same floor plan.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Fountain,

I installed 2 20 amp lines with Hubbell hospital grade outlets. I had the electrician run 10 guage wire from the breaker to the outlets. It cost $250 for the job. To me it was one of the better bang for the buck upgrades. Comparing A/B to the old outlet which is just 6 inches from the new outlet, the music became more dynamic and had more detail, coming from a more quiet, darker background.

It was a no brainer for me, but your experience may be different. If it's not too expensive, I would definitely try it.

Your experiece with the noticeable difference is what I am hoping for. $250 is doable, but I'm afraid it will go up since they will have to cut through the wall. My room is on a slab and another level of the house is above the room, hence no attic to fish through. Did you have to do the same or did you have a crawl space? If I do this my plans are to do something similar to what you did if not exactly.

Thanks,

Glen

 

[David Matz]

Your experiece with the noticeable difference is what I am hoping for. $250 is doable, but I'm afraid it will go up since they will have to cut through the wall. My room is on a slab and another level of the house is above the room, hence no attic to fish through. Did you have to do the same or did you have a crawl space? If I do this my plans are to do something similar to what you did if not exactly.

Thanks,

Glen

One of the reasons my price was $250 was that the guy went through the attic. It was only 30 feet, or so, of wire. The cost difference between 1 and 2 lines was negligible, so I had 2 put in. I believe the sound difference will be determined by the quality of the power supplies in your equipment. The more expensive they are, the more noise they filter out. Dedicated lines usually make a difference, however.

 

[SteveInNC]

Well, I'm way past the build phase but I wish I had done this then. Will I have to rewire my music room for a 20 amp line or will it be as simple as adding an extra breaker in the fuse box? Or should I just keep it at a 15 amp breaker but on its on circuit? Thanks for all of your help.

Oh yea. I thoroughly enjoy your magazine. Keep them coming!

Changing the breaker works if and only if the existing wire is rated for a higher capacity. Typical runs for a 20 amp circuit are 12 gauge wire. The person who wired the house may have run 12 gauge everywhere, just because it's almost as easy as the 14 gauge used for nominal 15 amp circuits, and certain circuits like kitchen outlets are required to be 20 amps. There is nothing wrong with putting a smaller breaker on a circuit rated for a higher capacity.

Large-scale builders will have used 14 gauge because they try to squeeze every extra dime out of their costs.

Even if the wire is 12 gauge, that may not be sufficient. If the outlet is a great distance from the panel, electrical code often requires the next-higher wire gauge over the typical amp-rated gauge to compensate for power losses in the wire. If you don't understand this stuff, don't attempt the change yourself - you can burn down your house if you put a larger breaker on an under-rated wire.

Voltage fluctuations are typical for residential electric. The AC phase is locked down to some ridiculous level of accuracy though, which is why cheap clock circuits use that as a timebase.

Having said all of that.... I'd love to have two dedicated 20 amp circuits to an audio/HT room.

As far as someone pulling new wire, even with a slab and room-over, there may be comparatively easy access to pull a wire through the first-floor ceiling joists (aka second-floor floor joists). If your house happens to be built with truss-type joists, this will be trivial. I-joists or solid joists may be easy or hard depending on how they run relative to the direction that the wire needs to run.

Other considerations: does your panel have any additional empty breaker slots? Does your panel have excess capacity available to feed these additional circuits (almost always true in residential)?

 

[VanDaRo]

I have 3 dedicated 15 amp lines feeding my listening room. It is good. Very, very good. Don't build a house or remodel a room without such pre-planning. You get brownie points for bringing this topic up !!

~VDR

 

[JonFo]

Steve gives very good advice on process and cautions.

I also recommend a dedicated line whenever possible.

The other thing I highly recommend is to add a power factor corrector to the panel you are pulling your audio room feeds from.

A power factor corrector will smooth out the waveforms anomalies caused by AC motors and the worst offenders: switch mode power supplies.

Your power amps will run cooler and have better reserves with a power supply that has a good quality PFC on it.

I use a pair of Powergy commercial grade units on each of my 200 amp panels in the home. The fridge and A/C motors are much quieter, and there is even an efficiency / savings in energy.
Bottom line: good for audio, good for ambient noise and good for your wallet.

PS- If you want to take your power subsystem to the next level, some of us have gone all out on power subsystem for our rigs. Check this out.

 

[DrJRapp]

the voltage will vary on my Monster power center from 122 volts down to 117. I'm not sure if this is normal or not. Glen

That is very much normal and probably much smaller than most will experience. Does your Monster power center have a switch that allows you to monitor current? I know the one I used to use did. You may want to monitor current for a bit before spending any money on an electrician. I found that the HT rig that my monster center was serving never drew more than 8 amps and rarely was above six. That was with a projector, pre-pro 7 channels of heavy amplification and multiple source devices all working simultaneously. My subwoofer, which can have heavy but momentary current demands, was on another circuit.

That having been said, I still provided a 20 amp dedicated, isolated ground (aka hospital grade) circuit with quad outlets for my audio gear and separate one for my dedicted theater room when I built this house. I then use APC power conditioners that regenerate the power to 120 v regardless of incoming voltage variations, we have a lot of them here in the countryside due to the long distance power travels on overhead wires to get here from the transformer.

 

[C.A.P]

because my system is smaller , I ran one 20 amp plug with 2 dedicated lines to it. One 20 amp to the top plug and 1 15 amp for the bottom plug. I just broke the tab off that connects the two and I have 2 separate dedicated plugs. 20amp for amp and 15 for CD player. They both are on the same phase too(Krell recommended it)

 

[FOUNTAIN]

As far as someone pulling new wire, even with a slab and room-over, there may be comparatively easy access to pull a wire through the first-floor ceiling joists (aka second-floor floor joists).
Other considerations: does your panel have any additional empty breaker slots? Does your panel have excess capacity available to feed these additional circuits (almost always true in residential)?

I'm not sure what the floor joists look like, but hopefully it will be what you described and the electrician can avoid cutting up my wall. As far as the panel, I'm almost certain there are several slots available. I will definitely check into that when I get home from work. Thanks for the reminder.

Glen

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Does your Monster power center have a switch that allows you to monitor current? I know the one I used to use did.

On my Monster Power center there is another number figure beneath the voltage(?) figure which when all of my equipment is cut on and running it is usually at 1.4 - 1.6. I don't believe this is much, but without anything to compare it too then I'm not sure how to read this. I have been thinking about just plugging my amp directly into the wall and bypassing the Monster conditioner when I have a dedicated line put in. Sometimes I read that these can seriously affect your amp and even other equipment. I'm not sure if that's the case, but I will experiment with this and see what happens. Of course that would leave me open to a lightning strike.


Glen

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Thanks guys for all of your help and suggestions. I will most likely install two outlets behind my equipment rack on a 20 amp dedicated circuit. I'm not sure however, if I will have them ran as seperate lines or put them on one fuse inside the panel. The electrician is supposed to come by the house sometime this week and give me a quote. He's probably going to wonder why I want hospital grade wiring and outlets, but tonepub gave me good advice to tell him if he looks at me funny. Although it won't be so colorful. (see his earlier post)

Thanks again guys. Ya'll are great!!!

Glen

 

[stevenic]

One of the reasons my price was $250 was that the guy went through the attic. It was only 30 feet, or so, of wire.

You got a great deal at $250. I just had a dedicated 20amp line ran to my home theater. It was $375 and the guy only had to go 6'. He punched it through a wall from my garage to the closet with my gear in it so it took him all of 30 minutes. Damn contractors!

-steve

 

[twich54]

Thanks guys for all of your help and suggestions. I will most likely install two outlets behind my equipment rack on a 20 amp dedicated circuit. I'm not sure however, if I will have them ran as seperate lines or put them on one fuse inside the panel.

Glen, so long as you have the breaker space in your service panel run two dedicated lines. It will be a minimal cost now and down the road you will be glad you did.