Curious

[Gordon]

Let me begin by saying that I've enjoyed coming to this site and learning about these wonderful speakers! The banter, recommendations and general attitude of you folks is refreshing for an open forum.

While I enjoy reading the "what is the best amp" threads, there seems to be a common thread which leads to the usual suspects. BAT, Cary, CJ, Pass and a few others rise to the top of the list. I'm certain and trust, these recommendations are based on your actual use or ownership that they are fine pieces of equipment.

What I'm trying to grasp and understand is why my gear of choice (McIntosh) is not as highly regarded as the others. I'm secure in what I have bought and am not a follow the herd type person and have a thick skin. Is there some element that I'm missing? I'd like to hear your opinions in the open because I believe I've sensed a veiled dislike of the brand.

I'm not interested in starting a brand bashing thread which I think would be closed quickly. I'm looking for honest, limited "emotional" discussion on what influenced your opinion of McIntosh?

Gordon

 

[DrJRapp]

Hey Gordon, interesting thread.

The salesman that sold me my Summits is a big Mac fan and powers his pair with a 352. I've listened to many a piece of Mac gear through the years and believe that they have a characteristic sound which emphasizes the low end and seems to have a bit of congestion in the lower mid, at least more than my tastes prefer. I realize that this is a broad generalization and does not apply to every piece of Mac gear out there.

A few years back, before I bought my MLs I was at a major audio salon in West Palm Beach auditioning B&Ws and had the opportunity to listen to the 803Ds with a Rotel RB1090, MC402 and a pair of Aragon Palladiums. This was all done using the same Aragon Stage 1 pre-pro through a switching board. I immediatly fell in love with the neutral open and refined sound of the Pals, so I eventually bought the dealers demo pair when the Aragon line was discontinued. I remember that my thoughts were that the Rotel's top end lacked refinement (grainy) and the Mac's mid/bottom lacked refinement,(somewhat muddled) by comparison. This is all very subjective and there may be other opinions.

 

[TomDac]

I love the big Mac amps. My friend Ryan who purchased my reQuests is driving them with a Mac and they sound GREAT to my ears... and those big blue meters are nice too!

 

[Rich]

I have never owned Mac amps; only demoed them. I think the big SS amps are very good with Logans. I would love to have a pair of the MC 1201's. But I am not a fan of the tube amps like the MC 275 with the Logans, although I know that some swear by them. I personally think they tend to roll off the highs with electrostats and don't present an accurate rendition of the music.

I also think that in some respects Mac rides on their reputation and the price of their products doesn't necessarily reflect the value of the product they produce today (meaning they are a little over-inflated in price for the quality you get). This is just my personal opinion, obviously.

FWIW, Martin Logan often uses the big SS Macs to demo their top-of-the-line CLX speakers, so they obviously believe in them.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I really feel the same way Rich. I have heard them on varius equipment and think you can do better for less or the same $$$$. I am not really sure that the mac look goes hand in hand with the way martin logans look especially new ones such as the spire,summit and vantages.just another opinion though

 

[tonepub]

Im about to uncrate a new 252, I'll let you know!

It's really all personal preference.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hi Gordon,

As you know, it's all about personal taste. If you like the way the Macs sound with your setup, that's all that matters.

GG

 

[jtwrace]

Hi Gordon,

As you know, it's all about personal taste. If you like the way the Macs sound with your setup, that's all that matters.

GG

Once again, spot on. that is all that really matters

 

[tonepub]

While I haven't been totally in love with everything McIntosh makes, on one level their stuff has always been consistently good and in some cases better than they've been given credit for by the major audiophile mags.

In the last couple of years they've had better press from TAS and Stereophile, which I've always felt was deserved.

Also, McIntosh is a great company, and like MartinLogan really goes the extra mile for their customers.

 

[FOUNTAIN]

Hey Gordon,

I currently use one MC275V and it is a wonderful amp. I am considering changing however so I can have more dynamics as I cut up the volume. I don't listen really loud very often, but it would be nice to be able to crank it up to realistic volume levels. The 501's or 1201's are my dream amps:drool: and I wished I had them. Although I would take a MC402 and be extremely happy!:music: While there are other great amps out there that I look at and would love to own, I most likely will stick with McIntosh. However, Dave's Rogue amps look mighty tempting.

Glen

 

[Bernard]

Has anyone on this site bought that wonderful-looking Mac turntable? ....tongue-in-cheek here !

 

[tonepub]

Tongue in cheek is right....

I'm a big McIntosh fan, but it's kind of a dud for $9000!

 

[risabet]

The best CD player I have heard, bar none, is the Mac MCD 1000 driving their MDA 1000. For $15500 at last listen it's a little more than I can afford, about $13000 more actually, but it made CD sound glorious to my ears. I've also enjoyed their amps and preamps each time I've heard them.

 

[twich54]

While I haven't been totally in love with everything McIntosh makes, on one level their stuff has always been consistently good and in some cases better than they've been given credit for by the major audiophile mags.

Also, McIntosh is a great company, and like MartinLogan really goes the extra mile for their customers.

I concur, and I think Jeff's opening sentence above hits the nail on the head for very often consumers "want to be told" that they have made the right choice.

Now with regards to their turntable, only a true "McOphile" would spend 9k for that 'Butt Ugly' thing !

 

[Bernard]

The best CD player I have heard, bar none, is the Mac MCD 1000 driving their MDA 1000. For $15500 at last listen it's a little more than I can afford, about $13000 more actually, but it made CD sound glorious to my ears. I've also enjoyed there amps and preamps each time I've heard them.

Was it as good as or better than your Linn?

 

[David Matz]

I guess I am not sure why you are asking the question... Are you trying to find someone with similar tastes? Are you looking to swap out some of your gear? Is it validation of your choices?

From a personal perspective, I have heard several Mac models - both SS and tube stuff, and amps and preamps. I think the SS amps work really well with Logans, as they have a lot of power, but that is what I like.

That said, I always found the SS Mac amps have a bit of a mushy midrange. The mc275 was good, but sounded like solid state compared to a similarly priced BAT amp. Their tube preamp sounded less tubey and more sterile than a similarly priced Ayre SS preamp. My personal thought on this highly reviewed item was: I can't believe the idiots from Stereophile or Absolute sound what call something like this "Product of the year". I guess hype sells magazines.

Again, these are personal preferences! Your preferences may be different. How many guys on this board have identical systems? Few even agree on a similar amp to drive the speakers. Also, people can't agree whether the new Logan generation sounds better than the old generation. People also can't agree on whether the French Onion soup tastes better than the Clam Chowder.


As far as validation goes, here is an interesting story that applies to many audiophiles:

An audiophile dating someone he thinks is the most beautiful woman in the world. He asks his friend what he thinks of her. The friend says: yes, she is beautiful, but she has a dimple on her ____. The audiophile takes another look at the woman's body part. The emotional connection fades as the audiophile analyzes and evaluates. The audiophile then dumps the woman.


The real question is: have you done your due diligence? Have you listened to at least 2 or 3 other brands (preferably half a dozen, or a dozen - if you are obsessive like me) at similar price points? If you have not and just blindly purchased the macs, I understand how you may want to swap out some of your electronics. Other brands may deliver more value for your dollar or a different sonic signature that better engages your emotions, as some of the threads above say.


If you have listened to other stuff and chose what you wanted, then who cares what anyone else thinks?

 

[risabet]

Was it as good as or better than your Linn?

No, it still lacked that spark of emotion and the PRaT that the Linn has, on the other hand it had that perfect stability (think sustained piano) that one gets with digital and the best TTs that the Linn in its then, 2 to 3 or so years ago, iteration didn't have but that the current setup (with motor mods and CF subchassis does). I don't know if McIntosh makes an SACD player but if so I would like to hear it. For me SACD with the best discs is very close to good analog.

 

[DrJRapp]

I noticed that all three major elements, source, pre and amps, in your system are Mac. Contrary to what one might intuitively suspect, rarely have I found that the synergy between all of a manufacturers products exceeds what is achievable by mix and match. For example: I have a foward and warm Meridian CD player with a somewhat dark BAT preamp and a very neutral pair of Aragon amps powering my laid back Summits. Together they work in harmony and just sing.

 

[twich54]

Contrary to what one might intuitively suspect, rarely have I found that the synergy between all of a manufacturers products exceeds what is achievable by mix and match..

Jerry, while possible, that is 100% personal / subjective, no if's , and's or butts !!

Example to the contrary......for those ARC fans (yes I'm one), the combination of Ref series pre and amp combined with a CD-7...pure heaven !!

 

[eknuds01]

I think it goes without saying that in this day and age with no less than 100 decent hi-end amp manufacturers, you have numerous choices. When you factor in the kind of music you listen to, the speakers, cables, room treatments, speaker placement - the only real variable that guides you is what you can spend.

It's a journey with no meaningful endpoint.

I haven't really listened to all that much Mac gear but at the RMAF, there were a number of rooms with Mac amps and pre-amps. I think Mac does indeed have a good reputation with a very devoted following.

As Rich said (and I agree) I think their stuff is a bit overpriced.

Erik