Clayton and Mccormack amps

[drrafe]

I am down to getting an amp.
I have posted here only a few times but visit here often(daily). I have learned alot from all the posters on this site. I have finally finished the new house and I am finishing the new SYSTEM.
I began by purchasing summits several months ago. As I (and my family) do watch movies alot on the new Samsung 71" DLP, I took the easy route first and got a Marantz SR9600 AV receiver to use for home theater purposes. It is an awsome AV receiver and really does quite nice with two channel work also. After using it a couple of months I would have to say the strongly favorable reviews it received were accurate.
I just purchased from Dan Wright 2 "demo" models that were used at some of the shows he attends. Modwright's highly acclaimed Sony9100 player with all the platinum signature mods including the new tube recitfied power supply and the 9.0 preamp signature edition also with the tube recified power supply. I based my decisions largely on info found on this site and on reviews such as that in positive feedback and others etc. By buying demos with what Dan tells me have 50-100hrs on them, I have saved some money and all the break-in time.
For amps, I have looked at and considered all the "ABC's" and then some others. For a while I thought I had decided to get the Wolcott presence monoblocks. Just not sure if I want to fool with that many tubes as these amps have alot!!! I also considered but not as strongly, class D amps like Bel Canto ref1000, Nuforce, Channel Island because of small size, little heat and good reviews leading me to believe top level class D can be very good.
Now I am strongly considering two other SS amps. Dan W. told me to look at Clayton monoblocks. He feels they pair well with his equipment. There is little written about them and I have read what is there(all raving). While researching, I also came across the Mccormack DNA 500 amp that gets extremely strong marks in the audiophile press also (see www.iar-80.com among other places to read about these amps). Of course within this same type amp class, I am already looking at the Plinius.
I wouldn't mind buying the amp used if it has low hrs. Clayton and Mccormack occassionally come up on audiogon. Plinius as well.
Sorry for the rambliing. Any suggestions welcome. The main question I have is does anyone have experience with anything I have mentioned particularly the Clayton and McCormack amps???
Thanks.
When all is said and done I will try to post pics.
Rafe

 

[sleepysurf]

Never heard of Clayton, but the McCormack DNA 500 is VERY highly regarded. I had that one on my "short list" but ended up getting the Belles 350A Reference (which had comparable rave reviews, but which I've already had replaced after it "blew" on me).

I'm also using the tube-rectified Modwright Pre (likewise a "demo" purchased direct from Dan). One caveat, make sure your Modwright has the latest "mute on power-off" circuitry, as my original one did NOT, and that *might* have been a contributing factor causing my Belles to blow. Dan upgraded my unit to include the circuit at the same time I added the tube-rectification.

Just WAIT till you hear the Summits with the Modwright and a dedicated 2 channel amp... it'll knock your socks off!

Are you using the stock Sovtek 5AR4 rectifier tube, and stock Tung Sol 5687's? I just won a NOS Mullard 5AR4 on eBay, which supposedly offers much better bass and midrange than the Sovtek. Will post an update once I get it.

 

[sleepysurf]

Hmmm, the Clayton amps look interesting, but being pure Class A, probably run HOT. They look good on paper, but are they still in production? Their direct website URL is defunct, but their distributor still lists them...
http://www.triaudio.com/Clayton_info.htm

If heat is not an issue, I'd also put the Pass Labs X350.5 (or X250.5) amps on your short list. They come up on A'gon from time to time, and I believe the warranties are transferable.

If you go with a smaller "boutique" designer, like the Clayton, I'd definitely inquire about warranty repairs and support. Fortunately for me, despite being a small operation, David Belles fully stood behind his product, and sent me an entirely new one.

 

[drrafe]

The Claytons are still made as Dan Wright gave me the name of a dealer, I think it was www.jamnaudio.com or something like that. His words were they sound "spooky good"
After all my investigation, I like the idea of the Mccormack alittle better because it is class A/B rather than A, it should run alittle cooler -although will still throw off some heat.
I have had your same Belles 350A on my short list as well, but have just gotten alittle sidetracked with the Clayton and McCormack after Dan W.'s comments and my latest research.

 

[MiTT]

I used to have a McCormack DNA-1 SE driving my ReQuests. It was a great amp, never had a stitch of trouble with it, and it was quiet, revealing and an imaging champ. Only reason I sold it is because I wanted to go with tubes for a while. Now I'm running a BAT VK-6200, but have thought about getting another McCormack oneday when I finish my dedicated listening room to use as a surround amp. Great product made by a great guy - if you call them you might actually speak with Tom McCormack. They are owned by Conrad Johnson now. Hope this helps.

Edited because I just noticed this one on audiogon for $700.00!

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1187037296

 

[nsgarch]

Should I just give up?

I am down to getting an amp. I began by purchasing summits several months ago. I just purchased from Dan Wright the 9.0 preamp signature edition also with the tube recified power supply. I based my decisions largely on info found on this site and on reviews such as that in positive feedback and others etc. For amps, I have looked at and considered all the "ABC's" and then some others. For a while I thought I had decided to get the Wolcott presence monoblocks. Just not sure if I want to fool with that many tubes as these amps have alot!!! I also considered but not as strongly, class D amps like Bel Canto ref1000, Nuforce, Channel Island because of small size, little heat and good reviews leading me to believe top level class D can be very good. Now I am strongly considering two other SS amps. Rafe

Perhaps I should make a little prepared speech and just paste it in every time this subject comes up? OK, here goes: With the Summit or the Vantage: muscle amps are no longer required ! be it a big Wolcott or a big Krell or Pass Labs. Why? Because the "muscle" part of the amplification, the part needed to provide powerful, controlled bass, already comes with the speaker! You already paid (a lot!) for it. I mean, there's not a lot of expensive cabinetry and even big CLS panels (which are hand made ) only cost 1K a pair to the customer! Four raw woofers? Maybe 1K to ML. The rest of the $10000 is hardware, service, advertising, profit and AMPS! And BTW, those internal amps only sample the signal coming in from the speaker cable. They draw no power from the external amp.

So the external amplifier (whatever it is) only powers the panel, and only starting at 270 Hz and up. Which is why I said it doesn't need to be a "muscle" amp, capable of delivering high voltage watts (as opposed to high current watts) to big woofers. High current-containing watts are indeed needed when the panel's impedance drops at high frequencies, but bear in mind that there's not much energy in an audio signal above 10kHz, so any amp capable of good current delivery at 80W or more will do the trick, including most tube amps. In fact, if you look at ML's specs for the Summit, you will see that a minimum-to-maximum amplifier power range is no longer specified, as with their older speakers. Rather a maximum power handling limit of 300watts is noted, but with no minimum!

OK, now for the personal-experience/opinion-based part of my little diatribe :clap: Lets call it "Amps and Stats" (panels only, no woofers!) I've had my CLSIIz's for 17 years. Besides being roughly twice the area of Summit panels, they are "full range" (sort of) going down to (barely) 45Hz. The Summit panels cross over much higher at 270Hz. Even so, I was encouraged to use tubes with my stats from the get-go, and purchased a pair of Audio Research M300 Mk2's (300W ea.) and then to have the factory triode-modify them for an even more refined sound (but now only 140W) bringing the 1990 total for both to $11k!! They each used 8 x 6550 power tubes! When they were sold for space/heat reasons 3 years ago, I temporarily used my SS 200W/ch@8ohms Levinson 23.5 beauty, but longed for tubes again. When I learned about the new version (after 45 years of continuous production) McIntosh MC275 I went for it (and this is as an example only, though a number of Summit and Vantage owners are now using them.) It is one chassis, compact, cool-running (2 power tubes/channel) and 90+ W/ch.; and a great value at $3900 msrp. I was assured that if it wasn't enough (it's plenty!) that I could buy a second one, and with the flip of a switch convert them to 150W monoblocks. Some Summit owners have done this, though no Vantage owners I know of.

My point? (yes, I have one) is that if you seek the air, detail, and and glorious midrange of tube amplification for your Summits or Vantages (or CLS's!) you shouldn't let an imagined necessity for big power deter you.

 

[tonepub]

I had very good luck with the ModWright pre and the DNA500 a while back when we had the DNA 500 in for review. I went a little further upstream and ended up with a Conrad Johnson Premier 350 instead and am very happy with that choice.

The MC275 is great if you want a bit more mellowness and romance. (I have one in my second system and it worked great with the Vantages) I have a second one coming in about three weeks, so Ill drop a post as to how they work bridged.

With the Vantages in for review, in the course of about two months, I've tried them with quite a few different amplifiers and have been very pleased in almost every combination. Another great pair of amps, should you be so inclined are the Manley 250's in triode mode!! That was a very sweet combination. All the warmth of the MC275 but more authority.

More money too, 9k a pair!!

All the choices you are talking about are good though!!

Enjoy....

 

[Jeff Zaret]

I think all are interesting and very good choices. Interesting because they all will have a different "sound signature". I think when you get down to a few I would try an in home demo even it is only for a few hours. I would write down likes and dislikes and this will help narrow it a bit more. The problem with "brand new amps is they are not usually broken in and so you will need to remember this because they do open up after several hours of playing.

All the advice here given is all good but remember it is your ears and money.

All things considered, I think you owe it to yourself to try a tube amp just to see what this does for the Summits. You may like and then again you may not but do not limit yourself. The point is well made that the Summits do have their own power for the woofers so do not get swayed by huge amounts of power. Remember it is not the power but the current delivery to the speaker/ESL panel that is needed. Having said that the Summit is not as current hungry as the older models.

I believe at this point no matter what you chose you will be happy.

Good Luck


Jeff