Building the new room

[zaphod]

I moved in about 8 months back and everything is still in boxes. why? well, there is no media room, just a big empty space. This thread covers my ideas.

The room is planned to be 21x8x13, close to Phi. the 13 is pretty set in stone as it is a supporting wall. the 21 can be shifted back and forth as need be.

One big issue is that there is a 6 foot wide patio door along the exterior wall. I can close it in, replace it with steel doors, or just have a big heavy curtain across it.

The room will be dual purpose - 7.2 theatre with a CRT projector, and also 2 channel stereo by way of a sonic frontiers line-2 with HT bypass. I have a number of sketches that show the empty room, and two end-for-end layouts. here is the site where i have the sketches and will include pictures and so on.

I'd like to keep the doorway that is currently the patio door, as I think that it would be handy to have a door to the outside. The other side of the interior end wall is my workshop and I'd really like to get a door into there as well so that i don't have to track mud/sawdust through the theatre when i co out the cut the lawn, or dig in the garden or bring lumber into the shop.

To get a door into the shop, i'm thinking of putting in an angled wall that divides the current patio door into two openings. one for the theatre and one for the shop. I'd mirror the angled wall to enclose the equipment rack.

The first picture is the empty room. the second is "layout 1" with the angled walls and the third picture is "layout 3".

If anyone has some feedback, i'd sure appreciate it. cheers.

 

[Brad225]

zaphod, I think you should take the full length the room offers. The layout should be fine for HT.
Which location will you be seated for 2 channel listening?
If the front couch is a distance then distance behind you should be fine. If the seating at the back of the room is your position be sure to use plenty of low end absorption on the wall behind you to stop the overloading of lower frequencies.

As for the angled wall I would definitely allow access to the shop from outside not through the listening room. Good intentions of not making a mess in there is probably not realistic (at least not for me).

Just plan on as much bass trapping as possible.

Keep us updated on progress.

 

[zaphod]

hey Brad,

the two channel listening will be in the front couch, not at the back. i hadn't really considered the back couch, i'm really aiming for the sweetspot to be at the front seating.

the only way i can think to get access between shop and outside is by using the angled wall between the two rooms.

hmmm, looking at layout "2", i notice another concern and that is the doors will open right into the CLS and sub. that can't be good.

 

[kach22i]

I've been working on a dream room of the same size for years.

1. There is one make of reclining sofa with a back low enough for two channel, made in Canada called EL Ran.
http://www.elran.com/Product_eng.asp

2. I have a sofa or twin recliners in the front/middle.

3. Based on several "get togethers" I would place a narrow high table behind the sofa and put two nice bar stools there (drinking or laptop table).

4. This layout would get ears off the back wall and raise them, and allow for a more social mingling type setting.

 

[zaphod]

hey George, i've seen the EL Ran stuff and it's not bad. For a long time this room had a sectional, aimed toward the screen like a "V", but getting i've pretty much tossed that idea.

the sofa is probably better than individual seats as well as my wife and i want this to be a social room as well. so your idea of a narrow high table is brilliant.

i'm also wanting to get the 2 channel rack out from between the CLS and out of shot (this rack will contain a preamp, TT, CD, DAC and perhaps R2R. i have a pair of old school target racks for this.

George - you've done a lot of acoustical experimenting - what do you think will be the effects of the angled walls on sound? i suspect that at worst it will make the second row seats muddy with lots of reflections focusing the sound into that area, and at best it will eliminate bass getting trapped in the corner by eliminating the corner.

 

[kach22i]

the effects of the angled walls on sound?

As you know there are wonderful examples of built-in corner bass traps featuring both the solid batt and thin membrane skin type.

Putting your equipment inside such a trap to be honest is an unknown, but warrants some thinking time.

When faced with a similar design decision I've always drawn in ASC tube traps for myself.

No matter what you put in those rear corners expect people to lean on them or worst, break their drunk'n fall with them.

I currently have my DVD player behind my listening position, next to my CD player. I've discovered this is very bad having to twist my body to push pause on the DVD and take a potty break. However, I do not pause my CD player half as much and it never seems to be a disadvantage in that location. What I'm saying is that if your DVD player depends on line of sight, make that sight line in front of you. The rest of the equipment might as well be behind you.

My 2-channel preamp has no remote, it would be nice to have it within arms reach.

Is there anyway to place your equipment in an insulated box hanging off the exterior wall? The box would be on the outside, a hole in the wall will be required for a flush interior opening. From the outside the box would look like an A/C cover. You could pad-lock an access panel so that tinkering with interconnects would be easy and no need for sliding trays/shelves. Waterproofing the assembly might be as easy as building a modest roof overhang for it. I've made this extra idea into a real project, sorry about that. It's just an idea.

EDIT: If you have no foundation for the equipment box it should not need a building permit. hanging it off the wall with some brackets under it or suspending it with steel rods or wires off the roof overhang will do if not too heavy. You may use the sliding door opening and existing header, and then fill in the other side with a single french door.

RE Angles: I do not know why angled acoustic panels on ceiling intersections are so much more welcomed over those in a simple corner. I suppose an octagon or round room is just so feared that anything which remotely reminds us of it is taboo.

EDIT-2: You can make it much nicer than this, and blend it into the architecture of the house.

Crude Example:

 

[kach22i]

A larger room, and more rows, but similar to the bar/tall table concept. I would not build a half-wall, as it would stop the energy flow/sound.

http://www.hometheaterdesignmag.com/102909farkas/

Needs a wet bar.

EDIT: Simple
http://www.hometheaterdesignmag.com/041009two/

 

[zaphod]

okay, i snapped a few shots, but first some thoughts, it's been a few days mulling in my brain.

I really like the idea of a skinny table and some chair/stools along it, and my wife has said that she would like a conversational feel to the room, not a "theater" feel to the room and i agree with that.

speaking of her, i printed out the two options for orientation and she thinks that mains at the right would be better. neither one of us like having the script side surround in the window, and the sun would probably wreck havoc as well on that panel.

having the gear behind the seating area isn't going to be a big issue, i've been using IR extenders for a while and will have to pick up a few more to wire in the equipment. only about 8 pieces, shouldn't be that bad. i had the gear behind the CLS in the last house and it wasn't handy at all. and when the screen was down it was horridly annoying. and the lights were distracting. so for movies i'd like to get as much gear behind me as possible.

i've also been trying to work out turning the patio door into two "regular" doors - one into the theater and one into the workshop to the left of the theater. The angled wall is interesting, but what will it do to the sound? we all know that Bass loves to hang out in corners. right or wrong, i've always thought this is because the bass waves hit the wall, reflect back towards the source and hit more bass waves. meanwhile the same thing is happening at 90 degrees in the the same corner, causing a mess in the corner. Following that, the angled walls in the corner will minimize the amount of reflected waves bouncing back into the sound because the source of the bass won't be reflected back onto itself.

George, you referred to those corners as giant Bass Traps - interesting. I had always planned on filling the stud wall with insulation, that probably would create big bass traps if i did it properly. hmmm

i doknow that those corners will lose me about 128 cubic feet of volume as well. My wife suggested that i just lose the door into the workshop and square off the room. maybe i should listen to her.

here are the "before" pictures

you can see the patio door (and table saw beyond it) and the window that has a wardrobe in front of it. the stairs (by the bikes) will have an IB subwoofer under them.

 

[C.A.P]

Loose the door to the shop. Wood dust and mud never a good match for audio. Add IB subs to the rear and make use of space. Get a big bottle of Red and convince wife your not insane !

 

[kach22i]

Zaphod, you should see CAP's system, he has a real bar behind his listening seat and it works pretty well in social situations.

Here is a corner trap design/angled wall:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8483

More tech info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=783311&page=9

The alternate bass corner trap is the membrane type, plywood skin (the thicker the lower the frequency) covered in fabric (air behind it) and the insulation against the wall.

Great idea!

having the gear behind the seating area isn't going to be a big issue, i've been using IR extenders for a while

 

[zaphod]

Loose the door to the shop. Wood dust and mud never a good match for audio. Add IB subs to the rear and make use of space. Get a big bottle of Red and convince wife your not insane !

oh, the ship has sailed on that discussion with my wife...

what i'm saying is not to have a door from the wood shop to the theater, but angle the wall between the two rooms so that both rooms have an exteriour door.

 

[zaphod]

hey George -

Gordon's bass trap seems to have (from the description) a bunch of air behind the panel, and the avs forum trap is a corner just stuffed full of insulation. is there an advantage of one over the other?

 

[Bernard]

hey George -

Gordon's bass trap seems to have (from the description) a bunch of air behind the panel, and the avs forum trap is a corner just stuffed full of insulation. is there an advantage of one over the other?

And George, how do these compare with an ASC Tube Trap?

 

[zaphod]

maybe this will get the idea across better, i'm not always the best is getting my brains ideas onto paper.

here are two room layouts. the first is a straight wall between the workshop and the theater. the red line is a doorway that i can fill in, leave as patio doors, or replace with a pair of better steel clad doors. the problem is to get from the workshop to the backyard means trucking through "living space" upstairs to and through the garage, or worse, around the corner through the theater. i can always take off my boots i suppose ...

the second picture puts an angle into the wall so that the 6' wide doorway is split into two doors. The red line is a door that goes into the workshop, the green line a door into the theater.

so there wouldn't be a door from the workshop to the theater. I can make that angled wall 6" staggered stud and stuff it with rockwool to make one big trap similar to what Gordon M did. the enclosed triangle in the second picture, aside from balancing off the room, makes for a nicely sized equipment closet.

sorry i wasn't more clear before.

 

[Bernard]

Personally I think it would be a pain in the butt not being able to get from the workshop to the theatre. Here's another option: on the bottom plan, instead of the equipment closet why don't you make it an angled door ?

 

[zaphod]

Personally I think it would be a pain in the butt not being able to get from the workshop to the theatre. Here's another option: on the bottom plan, instead of the equipment closet why don't you make it an angled door ?

i'm confused, i don't foresee a lot of traffic between the theater and the workshop. as for turning the equipment closet into a door, are you thinking that the door would be between the workshop and the theater?

i didn't put them in, but the workshop and theater both have additional doors into a common hallway.

 

[Brad225]

The angled wall up to the door for access to the work shop will create very limited access to your work area.
You will be lucky to be able to get something 24" wide in and out of the space.
In the picture looking toward the work shop area there is a window in the area/room to the left. If there is not sloping ground on the exterior you might think of putting a door there.
There is already a header of some kind above the window so you would only have to open up the window width down to the ground.
This would solve the angled corner problem in the listening room and give good access to the basement.
You could do this sometime in the future and temporarily use the sliding door until then.

 

[zaphod]

The angled wall up to the door for access to the work shop will create very limited access to your work area.
You will be lucky to be able to get something 24" wide in and out of the space.

yep, more initiative to keep me skinny

In the picture looking toward the work shop area there is a window in the area/room to the left. If there is not sloping ground on the exterior you might think of putting a door there.

hmmm, must be an optical illusion, the only openings in the exterior walls are the window (mostly behind the wardrobe/closet) and the patio sliders. there is no window in the workroom area. pity.

 

[Bernard]

as for turning the equipment closet into a door, are you thinking that the door would be between the workshop and the theater?

i didn't put them in, but the workshop and theater both have additional doors into a common hallway.

That's exactly what I was thinking, since you did not give us all the information -that there are doors leading into the common hallway.

 

[zaphod]

That's exactly what I was thinking, since you did not give us all the information -that there are doors leading into the common hallway.

sorry. brain working faster than fingers communicating.