Best value in $2750-$3500 A/V receiver/separates

[joe29001]

Much like the CD Player thread, I'm looking for opinions on: A/V receivers and/or multi-channel pre-amp/amp combos in the $2750-$3500 range. Obviously looking for components that sound particularly good with MLs.

Go Pats!!

 

[Taz]

AVR Denon 4806 no doubt. Pre/Pro you have all kind of choices.

 

[JohnP]

Hi Joe,
Would help us a tad more if you said which ML's you need to power but no biggie. First off I would avoid a receiver as IMO you'll get better sound from seperates. I have just recently bought a used Classe CA-300 for my Odyssey's and HOLY MAMA!!!:rocker: So here's a few ideas for you:

Pre/Pro: This guy has a nice Classe SSP-25 for only $895!!! http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1173982036

Amp: I have spoken to Ed and he's a straight shooter. His amp is in like new condition, just beautiful. Check it out: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1173455357


Ok, the above combo would probably blow your mind and you've only spent around $2300 or so. Or you could step up to two CA-100's and bridge em and use them as monoblocks. Or a CA-300. Lots of options with Classe.

Other options:

Pre/Pro: I know this wouldn't leave you much money left over for an amp but just had to post this beauty, I want it!!! http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1174274960

Amp: This amp is highly rated and seems like a steal to me,especially considering it comes with the speaker cables! I'm very, very tempted to buy it myself and I just bought an amp! http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174189286

Amp: or you could really step it up and get the III. It has just recently won much praise. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174021464

Amp: Or how about a set of Odyssey Extremes for a song! http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174112177

This caught my attention as well. I think this amp is a solid bet, a real sleeper. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174014845

Well I hope this gets you rolling. There is just so many options out there. Some really good stuff on Audiogon right now. Hope I've been of some help, good luck!

Sincerely,
John

 

[lugano]

Amp: This amp is highly rated and seems like a steal to me,especially considering it comes with the speaker cables! I'm very, very tempted to buy it myself and I just bought an amp! http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174189286

I second this - as a real fan of class D. This IS one helluva deal !!!

 

[ralflar]

I third this with a modifier: the same Greg Weaver who is quoted in that Audiogon offer also wrote this review of the Channel Islands Audio D-200 class D amp: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/cia_d200.htm

In the addendum to the review he compares the the D-200 with the SM II. Quote: "While I admit that the Musician III seemed to clearly surpass the II in midrange involvement and microdynamic capabilities during my all too brief experience with it (driving the VSA VR-4jrs) at CES 2005, the CIAudio D-200s have so convincingly bested the Musician II that mine was offered and sold on Audiogon last week. And why should that be so odd? Look at the advances in computing power and the subsequent lower pricing today as compared with what was available as state-of-the-art for Christmas of 2002."

The D-200 has a smaller sibling, the D-100. Both are said to have the same sonic signature i.e. the D-200 is just more of the same. The D-100 costs $1600 for the pair, only a hundred more then the SMII offer, but new and with warranty.

But I think we may have digressed a bit. You asked for opinions on multi-channel gear, we reflect on two channel kits.

 

[JohnP]

or multi-channel pre-amp/amp combos

You asked for opinions on multi-channel gear, we reflect on two channel kits.

Whoa, he sure did didn't he. I skimmed right over that and missed it, sorry about that Joe. :haha1:

 

[Charliemike]

I third this with a modifier: the same Greg Weaver who is quoted in that Audiogon offer also wrote this review of the Channel Islands Audio D-200 class D amp: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/cia_d200.htm

In the addendum to the review he compares the the D-200 with the SM II. Quote: "While I admit that the Musician III seemed to clearly surpass the II in midrange involvement and microdynamic capabilities during my all too brief experience with it (driving the VSA VR-4jrs) at CES 2005, the CIAudio D-200s have so convincingly bested the Musician II that mine was offered and sold on Audiogon last week. And why should that be so odd? Look at the advances in computing power and the subsequent lower pricing today as compared with what was available as state-of-the-art for Christmas of 2002."

The D-200 has a smaller sibling, the D-100. Both are said to have the same sonic signature i.e. the D-200 is just more of the same. The D-100 costs $1600 for the pair, only a hundred more then the SMII offer, but new and with warranty.

But I think we may have digressed a bit. You asked for opinions on multi-channel gear, we reflect on two channel kits.

If he starts there he can add another amp for the surrounds and go with a phantom center for a while. Lots of people talked about the pros/cons of phantoms but MLs are so fantastic that they are better as phantom centers than most centers are (short of a matched ML center). I still think that it's worth getting the absolute best 2-ch one can afford and add surrounds and associated gear for them later.

Since surrounds are like icing on the cake (IMO) it's probably best to worry about the cake first

 

[JonFo]

My recommendations for a multichannel set of separates under $3,500 would be:

Used Sunfire Cinema Grand 225wx5: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1174236619
This amp will drive any ML. At $1,200 one of the best values in multichannel amps for ML’s.

Used Meridian 568 pre-pro which still has some of the best sounding surround modes on the planet. Trifield will make all your 2ch discs sound like awesome new recordings, just get a decent center.
This one: http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1173043443
For only $1,000, it's a steal. (I should know, I have one and paid tons more)

So for $2,200 total, you get a full multichannel setup that has an A+ prepro combined with an amp that is guaranteed to drive your MLs to sound their best.
This will blow any receiver out of the water.

Now, if switching features, radio and other conveniences are important to you, you could do what many do, and get a Denon receiver and use the pre-outs to drive the Sunfire.

Just pick the model (2807 or better) that has the features you need and hook up to the Sunfire. The one advantage this offers s you can now leverage the Denon MultEQ room correction. That alone will be a huge advantage of that route.

As much as I like Denon’s they do not have the amp current for the big ML’s, much less the Gen1 models that have low impedances. So stick with a Sunfire amp regardless of what you put in front of it.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Arcam AVR 350

In the $2,500 list range, I think this is a serious piece to consider. You can assign two of the back "amp" channels to the front speakers giving you sufficient power for the ML's. Rated at 100W / channel, ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN. Also, the Denon AVR's are always a serious contender at a lower price point.

If I were to by an AVR today in the "less than" $2,500 range, the Arcam, IMHO, is the way to go.

GG

 

[Pcar928fan]

Now, if switching features, radio and other conveniences are important to you, you could do what many do, and get a Denon receiver and use the pre-outs to drive the Sunfire.

Just pick the model (2807 or better) that has the features you need and hook up to the Sunfire. The one advantage this offers s you can now leverage the Denon MultEQ room correction. That alone will be a huge advantage of that route.

You can also do this with any of the Pioneer Elite models out there. My VSX49TX does full on room Eq and speaker calibration as well. Nice thing to have but my Rotel does not do that and while we are a little bright I prefer the flat response curve now that I have listened to it over the Pioneers choice. But you could do the same with any of the big dog receivers.

I am selling my Pioneer too, but prefer a local pick up...I don't seem to have the original box anymore! You should be able to find the 49TX's for just over $1k. They were $4500 new!! YEOW! No HDMI though if that is important for you.

 

[joe29001]

Thanks for the info

Thanks for the info, much appreciated. Still haven't made a decision/still looking. One model I found in my search is the new Adcom receiver, GFR700/GFR700HD. Any experience with/opinion of this model & how it compares to the high-end Denon/Rotel/NAD/Arcam/Sunfire/Pioneer Elite models?

 

[twich54]

Joe, how serious are you about two channel music ?? or for that matter music in general, for I tend to agree with most in that spending serious $$$ on a receiver tends to be a poor investment, sonicall yspeaking, IMO.

I think Jonfo made a good suggestion.

FWIW, I own a Pioneer Elite receiver which is used for HT only, for it is dreadfull when it comes to music.

 

[joe29001]

To respond to twitch54, I'm definitely concerned about 2 channel and music in general (in addition to HT). I realize that separates will nearly always outperform receivers, but I've got a space limitation. The wife bought a cabinet (while I was away on business) which can accomodate most any receiver, but not many separate combos). I'm looking for the best performance that will fit in the space available, hence the desire to find a decent receiver.

 

[lugano]

The wife bought a cabinet (while I was away on business) which can accomodate most any receiver, but not many separate combos). I'm looking for the best performance that will fit in the space available

I'm afraid that this part is the real answer to twitch's question

Wife's furnituritis is something we really should avoid, because combined with our chronical Joeyitis it leads to disasters.

 

[twich54]

Joe, Hopefully some of the more HT savy folks will jump in here for you, but what I read , hear, etc. Denon and Yamaha have pretty good feedback.

Can't you politely let your wife know the cabinet idea......"sucks" !!

For your sake I hope you can set her straight and keep the peace !

 

[eknuds01]

Much like the CD Player thread, I'm looking for opinions on: A/V receivers and/or multi-channel pre-amp/amp combos in the $2750-$3500 range. Obviously looking for components that sound particularly good with MLs.

Go Pats!!

Personally, I think seperates are the way to go, but if you want a good integrated 2 channel amp, take a look at the Krell 400 xi ($2600). That still gives you another $1000 to play with (or save).

Erik

 

[ralflar]

For multi- and two-channel audio: Arcam 350

Gordon suggested the Arcam AVR350. If I needed a receiver that is also good for two channel music, this is the one I would buy. Note that Arcam prices will increase as of March 1st.

 

[joe29001]

Thanks

Thanks for the info. Too bad about the cabinet; not sure there's a peaceful resolution to that one (at least now - maybe in a few years, to facilitate an upgrade to separates). It looks like Denon, Classe, Arcam & Sunfire have received positive reviews, Pioneer = some good/some bad. I'll look into Classe/Sunfire/Arcam/Adcom/NAD/Rotel & hopefully find a good fit.

 

[Caerus]

I am using the Yamaha RX-V2700 ($1700 new retail) with pre outs to a Rotel RB-1080 ($1000 new retail). For 2-ch operation I use the Pure-Direct mode which cuts out most of the AVR circuitry, so it functions more like a pre-amp only. The Rotel 200 wpc amp powers the Xstats on the Vantages. The RX-V2700 140 wpc powers the Fresco center and the Montage rear surrounds. It seems to work fine for 2-ch and Home Theater. The Yamaha RX-V2700 is a wonderful AVR with all the bells & whistles for a reasonable price (HDMI, GUI, etc.). OBTW, the RX-V2700 can be had for $1400 new and the RB-1080 for $800 new.

Keep in mind for an AVR, Denons and Pioneers don’t like to operate into 4 ohm speakers. They state in the operator manual only 6 ohm or above speakers. I even called their respective tech. reps. and they concurred not to use 4 ohm speakers. The Yamaha will drive 2/4/6/8 ohm or above speakers. I tried the Pioneer VSX-82TXS and it ran a little hot into 4 ohm speakers. The sub-preout failed (go figure) and I was happy to take it back and get the better quality Yamaha RX-V2700. What speakers do you plan on using and their ohm rating?

I agree with Erik that the Krell KAV-400xi integrated amp may be the way to go with a suitable AVR like the RX-V2700. I am contemplating substituting the RB-1080 with the KAV-400xi (can be had used for about $1500). The Krell as an integrated amp that can function in two distinct ways. For 2-ch operation the AVR can be completely bypassed and the music source directly to the Krell amp which then operates as a pre-amp. For home theater the DVD (or any source) is connected to the AVR and with pre-outs to the Krell, it drives the main speakers just like a stand alone slave amp.

To me this is a fairly in-expensive way for me to upgrade to a better amp like the Krell and have an independent 2-ch system without starting all over with new separate equipment.

For you this would also be a great option. The Krell and the Yamaha RX-V2700 are not largely sized and the Yamaha AVR will have all the Home Theater functionality you would ever need.

Good luck, Brad.

 

[joe29001]

Thanks for all the advice, still haven't made the plunge; still listening to the NAD T763. Not a bad receiver at all, but definitely looking to upgrade soon. Still no comments on the new Adcom unit (GFR700/GFR700HD); I guess not too many people running them/experienced with them yet. It looks like it's down to them or Arcam, I wish there was a good place to do a A/B comparison - the closest I've found is 1,000 miles away.