Best Sub for ML's speakers without woofer??

[mact3333]

This question is mostly for people with CLS's or CLX.

I am in search for a subwoofer that would work well with my CLS's.

I dont need boomy earth shattering bass, as I feel the bass in the CLS's is almost enough for me.

But since I got the new Pass X1 pre, the bass has tightened up but there is an obvious cutoff in the bass as it just isnt as deep when compared to the other pre I was using.

Right now I am leaning towards ML Depth as I like the concept of having 3 eight inch woofers, as it would probably provide a very fast bass response.

I have heard good things about the Descents but I want something musical and fast rather than deafening HT type of bass.

Any other subs I should look at????

 

[zaphod]

well it depends on room size, but i have a depth paired with my CLS and i liked the tonal match and that depth had lots of punch (18X11 room)

the new - yet unbuilt - room is a bit bigger and i have a second depth, but have never tried it out - however i do look forward to a pair of subs.

 

[MOON]

I remember reading in a sub forum topic on this site that an ML dealer said the depth was the faster and more musical sub compared to the decent. I used to have a depth and really liked it. If things go as planned, I will get 2 depth i's later in the year.

Cheers, Greg

 

[Gordon Gray]

JL Audio, based on forum feedback and reviews, seems to be a serious contender.

GG

 

[cyclone]

I have two Depths which I used when I had my CLSIIzs, they replaced a pair of Velodyne F1200s. Both the Depths and the Velodynes had more than enough power for me and both were plenty quick enough. To tell you truth I didn't hear a whole lot of difference and I play my music fairly loud at times. That being said I believe the depths could put out considerably more if needed.

 

[timm]

In no way is the descent boomy. Blends very nice with my odysseys

 

[churchill]

JL Audio, based on forum feedback and reviews, seems to be a serious contender.

GG

Yes, if you get a chance check out the JL Audio subs; I'm running a single F112 which integrates well with the CLS!

 

[JMAUSGP]

I have had Depth i, Descent i and now JL Audio Gotham in use with 4 CLXs in a multi-channel system playing mostly hi-res music.

The Gotham has to be heard to be believed. It is very musical and easily keeps up with the CLXs.

Oh and it will go low enough and loud enough to put cracks in your cracks

 

[babydoc]

This question is mostly for people with CLS's or CLX.

I am in search for a subwoofer that would work well with my CLS's.

I dont need boomy earth shattering bass, as I feel the bass in the CLS's is almost enough for me.

But since I got the new Pass X1 pre, the bass has tightened up but there is an obvious cutoff in the bass as it just isnt as deep when compared to the other pre I was using.

Right now I am leaning towards ML Depth as I like the concept of having 3 eight inch woofers, as it would probably provide a very fast bass response.

I have heard good things about the Descents but I want something musical and fast rather than deafening HT type of bass.

Any other subs I should look at????

The CLS have a well known limitation in their bass panel as do the CLXs. I have a pair of Descent-i's which mate perfectly with the ESLs in the sense that they do not call attention to themselves and have enough speed to not muddy the midrange. In fact, adding subs improves mid-range which is enough of a reason to go that direction. The JL's are also very good but more expensive. If you are thinking about Depths, you might consider a pair. Used Depths keep coming up on the Web all the time so you could probably get a used pair of the price of a single sub.

 

[Ron]

I am happy with the JL113 with my CLX's. Blends perfectly.

 

[Gordon]

I've a stereo pair of JL 112's and they seem to integrate well with my Spires. It took alot of work to get them to where I like the sound but the effort was well worth it to me. I imagine if I dialed them way up I could knock down the drywall but I'm much more reserved at this point

Gordon

 

[GDSA]

I have a couple of REL subs. Best is the B2, but have to cross it below 40Hz and with vol way down to almost off. On rear wall I find the REL seamless with CLS and CLS2a.
Problem I find with the super low freq subs is they will pick up ALL sub music sounds (below 25Hz) esp on vinyl. The B2 is a good sounding Sub, but really needs a LF cut off ....going down to 16Hz is crazy.

 

[MiTT]

I likewise am using a REL sub (Stadium II) with my CLS IIz's and I found it very easy to set up and blend with them and it's quite musical while adding that much needed foundation to the bottom octaves.

 

[bk12]

I am running a single Velodyne DD-12 with my CLS speakers, and have had a lot of luck with that setup. You can have the Velodyne eq itself to compliment the CLS for a flat frequency response without crossing the CLS over. You can also adjust a "tightness factor", which I have maxed out in my setup. A ton of adjustability, and can be had reasonably on the used market these days. Highly recommended.

 

[Necrosuit]

I have a single Depth i with my CLX and it sounds great, nice and fast.
I have done some testing and moving the sub and have a found a very nice spot for it, cant tell the bass is coming from the bottem left floor, blends very well.

 

[autoformer]

A little OT since my experience is with the Summit X, but...

My friend has the original Summits and a REL B1 sub. Sounds great. The REL integrates very well. I have Summit Xs with the Descent i sub. I have not been able to get it to integrate it as well as his system. Different rooms, of course, both untreated, so YMMV.

This may not apply to your situation, but my main issue with the Descent is using it for combined theater/listening applications. The Descent i does not have separate level controls for the high level speaker inputs and the LFE input.

In the Descent documentation, Martin Logan recommends that in a combined theater/2 channel setup, you should connect the LFE input to your AV processor and line level inputs from your 2 channel preamp. I don't really understand why they recommend this, as it ignores the sonic qualities of your power amp, making integration harder.

The other issue with the Descent i is that there is only one level control. To get the levels right for both theater and 2 channel listening, you must first set up the Descent for 2 channel listening. Once you have the level right, you run your AV processor's calibration mode and let the AVR adjust the input signal to the sub. In practice, this works pretty well, but it makes fine tuning a laborious process. According to ML engineering, when you have input to both the speaker level inputs as well as the LFE, the signals are summed.

The Descent has significantly more punch and authority, while the REL is more subtle and refined. With full hindsight, if I had to do it again, I'd opt for a REL B1 and maybe a second if I felt I needed more power. But my friend's single B1 is plenty satisfying for watching movies.

 

[autoformer]

CLX Module for Descent i

I notice in the Descent i manual that there is an optional internal module for the CLX. This might make integration much easier, since the Descent was clearly designed with the CLX in mind.

From the manual:
"Optionally, an internal module in the Descent i can be upgraded with a custom tailored Low Pass Filter setting for use with the MartinLogan CLX loudspeaker. When this upgrade is implemented the 30 Hz setting on the Descent i becomes the CLX Low Pass Filter setting."

 

[Varun]

This might seem like a stupid question, but having a sub means having to have a processor-type integrated amplifier, right?

Can I use a pre-amp & a stereo power amp if I want a sub?

I've been thinking of adding a sub to my SL-3 setup, but having to switch amps has dissuaded me thus far.

 

[robertawillisjr]

This might seem like a stupid question, but having a sub means having to have a processor-type integrated amplifier, right?

Can I use a pre-amp & a stereo power amp if I want a sub?

I've been thinking of adding a sub to my SL-3 setup, but having to switch amps has dissuaded me thus far.

Yes. Just make sure that the sub is adjustable so that you can get it to blend with your mains and the room.

There are several methods to connect the sub to a two channel system. I suggest reading the manuals at the ML (or some other manufacturer's site). This will tell you most of what you need to know and also fill you in on the various products.

 

[Gordon]

This might seem like a stupid question, but having a sub means having to have a processor-type integrated amplifier, right?

Can I use a pre-amp & a stereo power amp if I want a sub?

I've been thinking of adding a sub to my SL-3 setup, but having to switch amps has dissuaded me thus far.

Is it a 2 channel rig? My subs are integrated in a 2 channel only with no processing except for what is available on the sub itself. I send a full range signal to the sub from my pre and use the sub crossover and the other adjustments available but no "processor" to speak of. I believe you can use a sub with a pre and amp if your pre has some type of sub out. You don't need a processor for a 2 channel rig.

My HT is a bit different animal, using the processor to shape the sound.