Are we in a recession 2

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Kenscollick

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Wall Street Burger Joint Dishes Out $175 Burger
Topped With Foie Gras, Exotic Mushrooms, Golden Truffle Mayonnaise
By STEVE FINK, WCBSTV.com
NEW YORK (CBS) ― The list of exotic and outrageously expensive menu items found in New York City has grown by one, with the addition of the $175 burger found in lower Manhattan.

So much for talk of a recession.

The burger can be enjoyed at the Wall Street Burger Shoppe on Water Street between Broad Street and Coenties Slip.

Kevin O'Connell, the restaurant's co-owner and chef, told WCBSTV.com he came up with the idea when a friend suggested he create a luxurious version of the American classic.

"He kind of challenged me and it was a question of how do you make a burger that was worth that kind of money," he said. "It actually turned out to be a really awesome thing to eat."

The burger is made with Kobe beef and topped with seared fresh foie gras, an assortment of exotic mushrooms, shaved black truffle, and golden truffle mayonnaise – another of his creations made from chopped black truffles, truffle oil, and gold flakes.

O'Connell said the item has gone over well for those who dare dish out the dough to try it.

"It's been a few here and there, but clearly I'm seeing the writing on the wall," he said. "Everyone seems to be pleasantly surprised that although this would appear to be a publicity stunt, it's really just an amazing thing to eat. It's clearly taken on a life of its own. I'm extremely proud of how it turned out."

Still, O'Connell stands by what he says is really the restaurant's staple: its $4 char-grilled "shoppe burger."

Other expensive menu items found in or just outside of New York City include Nino Selimaj's $1,000 pizza; the Westin's $1,000 bagel; Serendipity 3's $25,000 sundae; Old Homestead Steak House's $81 burger; and Chappaqua's $55 bottle of water.

Wall Street Burger Shoppe opened on Feb. 29. The $175 burger can be purchased any time after 4 p.m. from the restaurant's upstairs bar menu.


$55.00 bottle of water in Chappaqua who lives there that can afford that?
 
You know things are getting bad when the cost of gasoline per ounce approaches the cost of bottled water:eek:
 
$55.00 bottle of water in Chappaqua who lives there that can afford that?

That's a major hub of suburbia movers and shakers. many there can afford it.
BTW, I'm in the water biz. The expensive stuff, it's all hooey.
 
I invested in a very fine reverse osmosis, carbon, particulate and de-ionizer water filter installed under my kitchen sink to make my own near pure water at home. It was a great investment at around $225 and I'm sure has paid for itself over the costs of bottled water by now.

You can find excellent water filters at the better aquarium stores than what is available at hardware stores.

Regardless, I still buy bottled water when I'm away from home but only when there isn't much choice.
 
Anyone who has to ask whether we are in a recession should be fitted with one of those fancy white jackets with the long sleeves with straps, and pumped full of Thorazine, because their delusions are approaching the level of being a danger to themselves and others.

Just an opinon...

--Richard
 
I had a Kobe burger in Tampa last month for about $16. It was just OK. Maybe it wasn't 100% Kobe. I guess you get what you pay for, but then isn't $16 a lot for a burger.
 
I am reasonably sure that the "cheap burgers" don't include foie gras.

PS don't forget to thank a Vet. this Memorial Day.
 
From my point of view our so called recession is pretty much related two main things:

The construction industry and its labor slow down is clearly having an affect on the economy. What are the causes? For probably 3-4 years there was a totally out of balance real estate market. Most people agree with that. The pricing of commercial and residential property was what the market would bare. Many people were buying in to all of the talk that prices would not be coming down so you better buy know.
Builders, developers and speculators (for the most part) were putting together deals as fast as they could knowing full well that at some point the formula would not work any more and everything would come to a screeching halt. Were they going to be effected? Yes. Many of the builders developers and many subcontractors here in Fl. are not around any more. A year and a half ago it was hard to find even over priced subcontractors here to show up to do your work. Now when a sign goes up for construction general contractors are barraged with call from subs willing to work for only enough to keep their employes with them.

So with the false real estate prices and low interest rates people went out and borrowed money on inflated prices. I have heard numerous stories of people getting equity lines or lines of credit to use for items only because they wanted them now and weren't willing to wait until they could actually afford them. There is know way they would not have know when interested rates went up they would be in deep trouble.

Did that stop many lending institutions from continuing on lending to these people. No, but there are some that were much more cautious than others. Are the ones that did having problems also. Yes.

Then interest rates move up and surprise, people can't afford their possessions any more and it must be someone else's fault.

This is when I may need to put my flame suit on.

I may be wrong in many of your eyes but this I think this is just the greed and impatience of human nature.

Following the foreclosure rates going up and for quite a few months the media constantly had major coverage about the poor souls that are loosing their property and may be forced out of their homes unfairly.
Then comes the groups that don't want anyone to be held responsible for the own actions. The president becomes the bad guy because he won't bail out all of these people that made bad decisions on their own.
Do I have compassion for them. Absolutely. Do I feel someone needs to take care of all of them. No. There are always some people that can not take care of themselves and I have no problem providing them help.


Then there's the price of oil and the effect on food and commidties that makes the unemployment problem even worse for many.

Do I know exactly what oil is as high as it is, probably not. Right or wrong we have paid much less than the rest of the world for oil for years. Then things like, Venazuela and OPEC countries cutting back pumping quotas, Pakistan and China along with other middle eastern and Asian countries are using much more oil than ever. The Americans that purchase vehcials that consume large amounts of fuel. There are some cases of vehicle needs in construction, trucking and other industries that there is no choice in the matter of fuel consumption.
I also see alot of large cars and SUV's out their driven by average blue collar workers and they are the ones that have to be feeling the squeeze.
I have no problem with any vehicel a person ownes it is a free country. Many people again make bad choices and then complain about it.
Gas prices go up and people start buying smaller cars. Gas prices start down and people start buying large cars again. Go figure. It's a strange learning curve.

The USA has talked about becoming self sufficent for energy for years. We have oil in Alaska that special interest is blocking. There has been suggestion of wind generation off of the east coast and again special interest doesn't want to have to look at them from their water front homes.We have oil in the Gulf of Mexico that has been blocked once again and now China is drilling just outside our legal limits. There have been suggestions of oil from tar sands and shale but no go. And God forbid we should build a neclear power plant. Although there is another one in the final approval process north of Tampa in Crystal River. For most of these options we are looking at probably 20 years before they would be having any major affect even if we started today.

I personaly believe many Americans are just very slow learners. When things are good why think about the future.

As far as the recession if we had paid more attention to our financial condition and had voiced a bit of opinion on becoming energy sufficient previously it would lessen the problems we are having today.

No body ever wants to make the sacrifice them self but that is the only way it will all work.

Sorry for the ramble and feel free to pick my thoughts apart. I am always curious how others feel about thinks
 
This is when I may need to put my flame suit on.

Well, actually, you probably should have put it on at the VERY beginning, but since you are safely ensconced in flame-proof gear, I'll be more than happy to oblige, with as much civility and tact as I can muster in addressing the error of your ways... ;)

It's not the fault of the lenders, or the housing buyers, or greedy yuppies, or "moving-on-up-minded" lower-middle class people, or even the predatory credit card companies.

The fact of the matter is that this entire "housing credit crisis" is a HUGE sham--a smokescreen if you will--to cover up the REAL problem in the USA's financial sector. Mortgages represent less than 1% of the total exposure for banks, lenders, and financial insitutions in the USA. If EVERY single homeowner in the US went into totally unrecoverable default on their loans today, it would really only be a tiny blip on the overall stability of the financial sector in the USA. It would have about the same real impact on our economy as if, for instance, every car owner in the state of West Virginia stopped driving their cars tomorrow, and just took bicycles for the rest of their lives. Really. It's just really NOT that much exposure in the overall big picture of the financial world. Prior to the 1990's, the mortgage business was considered to be sort of "sprinkles on the cupcake" to the US financial sector.

The REAL problem with the financial sector is Credit Default Swaps.

A CDF is an instrument invented by large financial institutions. A CDF is essentially an insurance policy taken out against the possible default of a credit exposure. When a large financial institution extends credit, it has what is called "exposure". In order to protect themselves from that exposure, an institution will ask another equally large financial institution to write a CDF for a fraction of their exposure, which will pay them a settlement if the creditor defaults. This second party, then, has exposure from their CDF, and will ask another insitution to write THEM a slightly smaller CDF, etc., etc., on down the line, until the fractional exposure amount no longer is seen as a threatening exposure.

In other words, Credit Default Swaps are an inverse pyramid scheme, built upon the hopes that a creditor doesn't default. But if, for some reason, ANY single issuer of a CDF calls their swap, everyone down-stream from them must come up with the funds to cover their swap.

This is how Bear Stearns went down. Someone beneath them called a swap, and they didn't have the liquidity to cover the call...

And the vast majority of these "exposures" are insitutional loans or instruments--NOT home mortgages, credit cards, or other piddling credit instruments. We're talking corporate loans, governmental loans, international investment bank funds--multi billion dollar transactions. It is a HUGE financial shell game, where governments and coprorations take out loans from each other and large financial institutions, to cover costs, payrolls, and large projects, and secure those loans with other, equally vaporous instruments like stocks, Bonds, Treasury Bills, and other securities.

The truely scary thing about CDF's is that they are largely inregulated--as they are not publicly-traded securities, the SEC or the Dept of Commerce has no real jurisdiction. They are essentially a self-regulated security, policed and controlled by the people who issue them.

And it is THIS paper-chase that is the REAL "credit crisis". It is because the majority (far more than 51%) of the Dollars changing hands on the international financial scene are backed by nothing tangible, but are only secured by the faith of those involved in these trades, that the Dollar is losing it's value, and eventually, if the current trends continue, will reach near-Depression-era devaluation within the next 10 years.

The "price" of Real Estate, hard goods, and most services has not changed in the last 100 years in the US. The value of the dollar, however has devalued in relation to those goods and services by about 400% in that time.


I may be wrong in many of your eyes but this I think this is just the greed and impatience of human nature.

On this point we are in COMPLETE agreement. The American public has bought into the culture of instantaneous gratification hook line and sinker. Many Americans believe they have a RIGHT to a level of economic prosperity equal to or greater than their parents, because for the last 60 years, this has been the case.

So regardless of the fact that the Dollar is worth less now than it has been since we went of the Gold Standard, and the fact that Real Wages for middle-class laborers is at it's lowest point in over 50 years, and our government and corporations have placed rampant low-cost consumerism ABOVE the economic, industrial, and technical health of the USA for the last 20 years, most Americans, ESPECIALLY those in the middle- and lower-middle class feel they are sort of OWED the same standard of living their parents had, even if they are making less, buying products that are shoddily made for more money, and pumping their comsumer-goods dollars by the ship-load into foreign governments who are essentially our Economic Enemies.

We are short-sighted. We are greedy. And worst of all, we have allowed our government and our corporations to de-educate us to the point where the average American is simply unequipped to rationally, logically or critically analyze the situation.

We have, dear friends, colluded in our own enslavement, and we have voluntarily set ourselves up to live in a feudal society, where any criticism of the status quo is branded as "crackpot thinking", and any refusal to participate is viewed as "unpatriotic".

Mr Wells, we tip our hat to you indeed. You were only off by about 20 years... (oblique "1984" reference...)


Then there's the price of oil and the effect on food and commodities that makes the unemployment problem even worse for many.

The "price" of oil is one of the few "prices" that has actually gone up, even calculating the devaluation of the dollar into it. It has, in fact, risen with complete disregard to world supply and demand, speculative manipulation, or any other measurable market indicator. The "price" of oil has risen, mostly because the al-Saud family, in collusion with the Bush dynasty and other American petro-chemical concerns realize that their window of profit is quikly coming to a close, and they had better "get it while they can". If the next American President (be it Democrat or Republican, male or female) decides to attack our energy situation with the same vigor and focus as was put toward the Manhattan Project or the Apollo Missions, America could be running just about everything that uses combustable fuel on something OTHER than petrochemicals within the next 2 decades, with the rest of the world to follow soon thereafter. And although a large part of the American economy is based on oil, the ENTIRETY of the Saudi economy, and fortune of the al-Saud Royal Family is based on oil. They have a LOT of motivation to get every penny out of the fuel tanks of the world in the next few years, because by 2050, if the world plays it's cards right, the internal combustion engine will be about as common as Edison Wax Cylinder players...


I personaly believe many Americans are just very slow learners. When things are good why think about the future.

No, we are VERY fast learners. It's just that we've been TAUGHT to believe in a "reality" that has no basis in reality at all--the idea that the Dollar is iron-clad; the idea that every American generation has the RIGHT to improve their standard of living over that of their fore-fathers; the idea that we can demand incredibly low priced goods to feed out rampant consumerism (which can only be produced by third-world manufacturers who use shoddy materials, dangerous working conditions, and have complete disregard for environmental health and safety) and still expect to have jobs that pay wages high enough to continue to buy said goods, etc., etc., etc.

Why does a TV, automobile, or telephone today, which is supposed to be "state-of-the-art", built using the most high-tech facilities and designed by the most advanced scientists, have roughly 1/3 the useful lifespan of the same sort of item built here in the USA 20 years ago?

Well, first, it's because long-lasting consumer goods are deemed as being "bad for business". If the stuff people have works, they generally won't replace it.

Secondly, most of those goods are being built by people who have no stake in the reputation of their product; people who are one step above slave-labor in nations where they get back a miniscule fraction of the "economic value" they produce; people who can NEVER hope to afford to purchase the very products they produce.


As far as the recession if we had paid more attention to our financial condition and had voiced a bit of opinion on becoming energy sufficient previously it would lessen the problems we are having today.

If the average American had even a SLIGHT inkling as to the REAL way that our financial community functions (and this includes our own Government's financial dealings), this would go a LONG way toward solving this problem, because it would probably result in mass movements by the public toward a cry for economic responsibility for ALL parties--individuals, institutions, corporations, AND governments.

For instance, if Americans knew where the money was coming from for the "Bush Tax Refund", they would probably tear their checks up the minute they received them, in disgust.

This "stimulus package" is funded largely thorough the issuance of Treasury Bills by our government. The primary purchaser of US T-Bills is foreign governments. Currently, the largest purchaser of US T-Bills is the government of the People's Republic of China...

To put this in simple terms, that would be like the US government funding the Apollo Program with loans taken out with the USSR. Or funding the Manhattan Project by selling T-Bills to Germany in 1944.

It defies logic. It defies ethics. It defies all rational thought.

But since our educational system and our media have been effectively designed to PREVENT the development of rational analysis by the American public, nobody seems to understand what is going on. And anyone who dares to raise this warning flag is branded as "unpatriotic" or an "economic crackpot"...

"Truth" has become commoditized, and it is every bit as flexible and variable now as the "value" of our currency. And because of this, REAL truth, like REAL money, has become the province of crackpots, nutcases, and weirdos, at least in the eyes of the general populace.


No body ever wants to make the sacrifice them self but that is the only way it will all work.

Americans have made PLENTY of sacrifices--they have sacrificed their industrial base in order to get lower prices. They have sacrificed their family-owned businesses in order to get the "convenience" of shopping at mega-stores. They have sacrificed their financial discipline in order to "live for the NOW". They have sacrificed the future health of their children and their planet by continuing to use petrochemicals because they are too greedy to explore other alternatives that might make the petrochemical industry obsolete. They have sacrificed their position as the manufacturers of the world's best hard goods by shipping their manufacturing base abroad so their WalMarts will be filled with goods they can afford on their near-feudal wages. They have sacrificed the most advanced medical community in the world so that insurance companies (who don't have to take the Hippocratic Oath) can maximize profits by telling doctors and nurses who can and cannot receive treatment based on cost-benefit tables and risk analyses of their cases rather than medical need.

No, Americans have made ALL kinds of sacrifices. But mostly we have sacrificed our own freedom and perhaps the very soul of what it means to be an American, by allowing our lives to be controlled by people who's ONLY interest is the nearly-psychotic accumulation of wealth.

If you're going to blame someone, blame EVERYONE, because we're all at fault. The big guys are to blame because they have preyed on the ignorance of the average person. The government is to blame because it has actually encouraged this sort of behavior--both the predatory business models AND the purposeful dumbing-down of the People. And the People are to blame, for not being smart enough to acknowledge the reality of the situation or or disciplined enough to do anything about it.

Remember, when you point a finger, there are three more fingers on that same hand pointing back at you...

--Richard
 
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Dreamer you totally lost me with :

"Mortgages represent less than 1% of the total exposure for banks, lenders, and financial insitutions in the USA. If EVERY single homeowner in the US went into totally unrecoverable default on their loans today, it would really only be a tiny blip on the overall stability of the financial sector in the USA."


Regardless of its numerical accuracy it is one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard.
 
Richard,
What is it you think you know about me specificially with your finger pointing comments?

I know nothing about you. That "you" in my post was a generalized "you", meaning almost anyone in the US who is trying to place the blame for this situation. Nearly everyone is contributory to this situation on some level. If you work for a large corporation, you share in the blame. If you work for the Government on any level (state, federal, local), you share in the blame. If you participate in any way in the markets, have a retirement account, stocks, or hold any securities, you share in the blame. If you hold a credit card, you share in the blame. If you pay taxes you share in the blame. We ALL have contributed to this on some level, through tacit consent, active participation, or through harboring the delusional expectations that our employers, our financial advisers, and our government actually have the best interest of the nation, and each individual citizen, in their minds.


Dreamer you totally lost me with :
"Mortgages represent less than 1% of the total exposure for banks, lenders, and financial institutions in the USA. If EVERY single homeowner in the US went into totally unrecoverable default on their loans today, it would really only be a tiny blip on the overall stability of the financial sector in the USA."


Call it what you will. If you feel it is inaccurate, Google it. Call your financial adviser. Prove me wrong.

But if you want to REALLY throw a wet blanket on a party full of financial gurus who are bemoaning the "credit crisis", just stand up and ask them if ANYONE would like to explain what part CDS's play in the situation. You will be met, I guarantee, with silence and icy stares, because they don't want anyone outside the industry to know about their little shell game.

We need to remember that the "mortgage crisis" isn't a potentially catastrophic problem because there are a lot of people who are going to default on their mortgages. It is a potentially huge problem because of the way the financial sector has structured it's "stop-loss" scheme. Like I said in the above post, CDS's are a huge inverse pyramid scheme. When a debtor defaults, the note-holder STILL gets their security--their property. They ALSO get a payout on their Credit Default Swap--essentially MAKING money on the default. But THEN, the holder of the original CDS calls in THEIR CDS, and makes money,, and so on and so on.

Since CDS's are not publicly-traded securities, they are not subject to close regulation or enforcement by the SEC or the DoC. Since they are essentially "corporate paper", they do not figure prominently in to the credit or debit tables on these corporation's financial statements. CDS's are set up so that the holders can ONLY win, in theory--if the debtor pays their loans, the original note holder gets their money. If they default, the note holder gets their property, AND gets a large percentage of their money through a CDS, at least in theory. Of course, NONE of these companies have anywhere near the liquidity to actually cover their CDS's, even their "small" ones. That is the real reason this is an issue. Sub-prime mortgages, I reiterate, are a TINY fraction of the entire financial market. Corporate, insitutional, and governmental loans, securities, and instruments make up the overwhelming majority of their valuation. Defaults on the high-risk private loans for homes represent a microscopically small percentage of the total exposure of the financial sector. It is the inverse pyramid scheme of CDS's that will cause the REAL problems with these defaults.

By fabricating the instrument of the CDS, the financial sector has set itself up for the potential of a rather nasty domino-effect collapse. If lenders would have held their greed in check, and covered their exposure ONLY with the promise of recovery through repossession of real estate, RATHER than hedging their exposure with an inverse pyramid scheme, this whole "credit crisis" would be non-existent.

The reason the mortgage situation is getting so much play in the news is two-fold:

1) common people can grasp the concept of defaulting on a loan, to the tune of $50,000, $100,000, or even $200,000. This is a concept that most Americans can handle intellectually, theoretically and mathematically. It therefore gives the financial sector a graspable scapegoat to pin the fear of the public to, and it pushes the blame for their grossly unethical practices off onto the middle class, and to those in the lower-middle class who have dreams of bettering their lot in life.

2) There is not a single large financial entity in the world that isn't leveraged up to their ears right now, or that has even a fraction of the liquidity needed to cover their exposure without relying on CDS's, and the kindness of their own governments and other large banks, should these large institutional CDS's start getting called in. By pinning the teetering instability on individual homeowners instead of the multi-trillion dollar debts currently owed by corporations, governments and other financial institutions, the financial sector (and Central Banks of the large nations) can create fear and feelings of responsibility into the hearts of the common man, thereby circumventing the potentially destabilizing movement for radical reform by the general populace, if they knew where the REAL responsibility was.

The largest holders of US Treasury Bills (which are a LOAN INSTRUMENT) currently are foreign governments, and the largest percentage of those foreignly-held T-Bills are held by China. The world financial market knows this. The Chinese know this. The US Government knows this. All these entities have gone to great lengths to hide this fact from the American people. The primary reason the US Dollar is so painfully devalued now is because the rest of the world knows that China owns us lock, stock, and barrel. If China should decide to cash in just a small percentage of their currently held T-Bills, it would cause complete loss of faith in the dollar worldwide, because everyone knows we don't have the liquidity to cover them. Since going off the Gold Standard, the US Dollar has no real backing, and is only held up by the good faith of the nations who have made us loans. If we defaulted to our largest note-holder (China) nobody else would maintain faith in our currency. That is just how credit and faith-based currency systems work.


Regardless of its numerical accuracy it is one of the most absurd statements I've ever heard.

Truth very often flies in the face of commonly held "knowledge".

Believe what you will. Don't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs. After all, it is THAT sort of thinking that got our financial sector into the situation it is in today.

Prove me wrong. I dare you. And if you can do it without resorting to name calling and off-the-cuff dismissal of my statements, then I will applaud you. But if your way of disproving my premise is to call my premise "absurd" then perhaps you need a refresher course in verbal forensics and syllogistic logic.

Argumentum ad hominem is the last shelter of a cornered demagogue...

--Richard
 
Bear Stearns...

Fannie May...

Freddie Mac...

and now Lehman Brothers...

I heard on CNN'x XM radio channel yesterday a CNN reporter covering the Lehman debacle that they went down primarily because, and I quote:

"Lehmans heavy involvement in the largely unregulated Credit Default Swap market, which is not really understood by anyone in the financial sector."

It's about time that SOMEONE in the media brings this to light. Unfortunately, I only heard this one reporter talk about CDS's, and watching CNN all day today, I did not hear anyone else talk about this.

Vindication is a delightful thing...

Most of the coverage is still fanning the "credit crisis" fire, talking about the usual smokescreen of housing mortgage defaults, personal credit, and the standard party line of blaming the consumers of these piddling credit instruments for the failure of the banking system in the US. But at least ONE reporter on CNN got the story correct. I wonder if she still has a job though...

--Richard
 
Dreamer,

You make a good argument. I'm not familiar with all the details of which you speak but lets say I'm in agreement. What can be done?

:confused:
 
Just to run a little further with the CDS talk, I ran across this article here from MoneyMorning.com on 9/22 that talks about how AIG was brought down by them. From the lead paragraph:
There’s nothing fundamentally wrong with the core insurance business units of American International Group Inc. (AIG). Nothing at all. What imploded the venerable insurance giant was an accumulation of misplaced bets on credit default swaps.
 
They need more oversight within the financial derivatives market.


No. This is wrong. The REAL answer is to ABOLISH the financial derivatives market. Derivatives are "vaporware". They are an artificial construct whose ONLY reason for existance is to rob wealth from investors and put it into the pockets of international banks and their owners.

Derivatives are exceeded in ethical evil ONLY by the concept of fiat currrency. They should be done away with. And anyone who defends them should be immediately suspect as complicit in the pillaging of the markets by these sociopathic generational thieves and "banksters"...
 

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