5.1

[Nikos]

I have some video dvd's with 5.1 souround sound but I don't have a 5.1 system.
(for example I have the 9nth symphony of Beethoven (Karajan) in CD and video dvd.)

Could someone describe the difference in music between a stereo and a 5.1 system?

is it worth the extra money for a 5.1 system for music DVD's?
(ok I will use it for movies as wel,l but I am a 80%music 20%movies guy)

 

[TomDac]

Stereo is 2 channel: right and left front
5.1 is 5 channels (right and left front, right and left back) and a center channel.

When they re-master or create a DVD-A disc, they mix in the additional surround channels. I don't have a whole lot of experience with this, but I think most of the DVD-A discs have a 2 channel layer as well as a 5.1 channel layer, which means you can listen to it in stereo or surround. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not crazy about music in surround because when I listen to music, I imagine the stage in front of me and the musicians on the stage. In surround, you may hear violins for example, thru the rear channels. It doesn't sound natural to me, especially when you are already familiar with the recording. My surrounds are not very good, so that may have something to do with it.

DVD movies, however, all are set up with 5.1 (or 7.1 now, I think) so you have voices coming from the center channel and sounds on coming from the other channels that follow the action on the screen.

Hope this answered your question. :music:

 

[JMAUSGP]

Tom covered most of it, but I would add that surround sound whether it is 5.1, 7.1 or some other iteration, is purely subjective. I would recommend that you try listening or as some describe it, experiencing surround sound. There are a few different formats for music, two prominent ones are SACD and DVD Audio. These formats are akin to high definition in that they are some times called high resolution. You may find that once you listen to SACD music or DVD Audio music in 5.1 surround you might get hooked. It is kind of a love it or leave it mentality. I am in the love it camp, and I have gone to the extreme that I even convert two channel stereo to 5.1 surround sound on my ML system and I have two separate systems, one is 7.1 HT and the other is 5.1 for music. Anyway, if you are interested definitely go listen to a good or great 5.1 surround sound music system before you buy it and set up. If the system you demo is not ML but you still like the surround sound then the goods news is that with an all ML surround sound system it just gets better. You probably need to find out which camp you belong in before spending the time and money to do a ML surround sound system. At least that is the rational approach. I on the other hand have been a fan of surround sound since the days of Quad or 4.1 systems in the 70s, like I said you either love it or leave it. The music available today that has been mixed and remastered for 5.1 like Pink Floyd Dark Side of The Moon in SACD is phenomenal. I would recommend you do some searching on this forum and get a list of top surround sound music to get a hold of so you can experience what it is like in its highest art form when you demo your first surround sound system. Be sure to enjoy the journey.

 

[FISH_MAN]

I'm not crazy about music in surround because when I listen to music, I imagine the stage in front of me and the musicians on the stage. In surround, you may hear violins for example, thru the rear channels. It doesn't sound natural to me, especially when you are already familiar with the recording. My surrounds are not very good, so that may have something to do with it.

:music:

that's how I feel as well

 

[taylode]

I'm not crazy about music in surround because when I listen to music, I imagine the stage in front of me and the musicians on the stage. In surround, you may hear violins for example, thru the rear channels. It doesn't sound natural to me, especially when you are already familiar with the recording. My surrounds are not very good, so that may have something to do with it.

Maybe tomorrow I can change you opinion some. :devil:

 

[DTB300]

I'm not crazy about music in surround because when I listen to music, I imagine the stage in front of me and the musicians on the stage. In surround, you may hear violins for example, thru the rear channels. It doesn't sound natural to me, especially when you are already familiar with the recording. My surrounds are not very good, so that may have something to do with it.

Good Classical Surround (SACD MCH) when done right uses the surround channels for hall sound signature recreation. This is my preferred way for MCH music. It gets "closer" to the sound, compared to two channel, that I hear when going to the Symphony Hall to hear the BSO or NSO perform works (Strathmore & Kennedy Center).

Very aggressive surround mixes puts instruments and singers in the surround channels (like the DSOTM album we have been talking about). Like you, I do not like it that way either, but friends of mine who are musicians like it as it makes them feel they are sitting there playing with people.

One example of when the instruments should be in the surround mixes is an Organ MCH SACD I have where the actual organs are placed around the church and the recording reflects that placement. Classical seems to be the only genre that gets MCH playback right IMO.

Lastly IMO, when the setup is right and the recording is right MCH music can be amazing to hear. There is a person over at the Asylum in the HiDef forum who hears many concerts and has a great 5.1 setup and on numerous times states how much closer MCH gets to the music he hears performed at the Symphony Halls.

 

[JMAUSGP]

I would add to what the others have said that in your original question as to what 5.1 really is.....that 5.1 is actualy 6 channels when you include the subwoofer. And in 7.1 it is 8 channels so don't forget that sub. And you can quickly see how with an all ML system, it gets pretty expensive pretty quick to put 6 or 8 ML speakers properly placed and treated in a room. In other words Nikos go listen to some recommended SACDs and DVDAs on a good hopefully ML surround system. You really won't know which camp you are in until you experience it for yourself. You may be just into listening to music in the 2 channel camp and that's okay or you may be into experiencing the music in the multi-channel camp, it really depends on what is between your ears. I tend to like sitting in a room completely surrounded by ticking clocks like on Dark Side of the Moon. It just seems more engaging to me than listening to a wall of clocks, no disrespect intended to the other guys. It just seems that with Surround Sound the music goes through you, thru your head, your heart and your soul as it moves you from speaker source point to speaker source point. Some times it literally wears me out, but again it depends on what your own tastes desires and experience with MCH Music tends to be and oh, don't forget once you have a kickbut MCH music system running you then have a kickbut Home Theater system to boot. Some of the best concerts are done on DVD in 5.1 surround sound, but again that is just an opinion, so you will have to experience it for yourself to know what really is your truth. It is all just icing on the cake really, because any system done with ML panels has the potential to take you to Nirvana, which is just south of Iguacu..I think.

 

[DTB300]

Then 2 Channel with a sub is really 3 channel?? But if you do not have a sub it is 2 channel?

BTW, since you can play DVD-A, look for GBYBR on DVD-A as IMO it is better sounding than the SACD version. :rocker:

 

[Nikos]

thank you all, your description of 5.1 sound was very helpfull.
I read that you need 5 good speakers for best results in music. the cost is out of my plans for now, but I am thinking to buy Vista/Vantage and use Purity for rear. with a good sub I am close to a real good ML 5.1!
thanks again for your time, I was asking in other forums as well but in this one I found the best answer.

 

[Nikos]

Good Classical Surround (SACD MCH) when done right uses the surround channels for hall sound signature recreation. This is my preferred way for MCH music. It gets "closer" to the sound, compared to two channel, that I hear when going to the Symphony Hall to hear the BSO or NSO perform works (Strathmore & Kennedy Center).

your description sounds ideal but I think it is only in good SACD and not in 5.1 dvd concerts.

 

[Nikos]

I tend to like sitting in a room completely surrounded by ticking clocks like on Dark Side of the Moon. It just seems more engaging to me than listening to a wall of clocks, no disrespect intended to the other guys. It just seems that with Surround Sound the music goes through you, thru your head, your heart and your soul as it moves you from speaker source point to speaker source point.

ok here is something very important for my decision. with 2 speakers, the best sound is coming when the speaker are 5 feet from the front wall. the soundstage is behind the speakers.If I go to 5.1 I have to place the speaker closer to the wall and use HF absorbers. the effects of the rear speakers and the surround avr will help to create a soundstage between the 4 speakers?

 

[JMAUSGP]

At least with Martin Logan panel speakers, you still need the proper placement with the front speakers and in addition the surround speakers benefit from placement as well. I do not move my speakers when I listen to 2 channel or when I listen to 5.1 channel music. Usually in conjunction with your AVR you have to tell the AVR or Pre-amp what the distances are to each speaker, front right, front left, center, rear right, rear left and sub woofer. Then you have to use some kind of equalization software and microphones or an SPL meter to set the loudness for each channel. Some AVRs do this automatically. Once this is setup you do not move your speakers regardless whether you listen to 2 or 5,1 channel.
I think you might have confused my 5.1 example. My description that you quoted referred to a specific song off of the Dark Side of the Moon SACD where in 5.1 surround you are sitting both figuratively and musicly in a room with clocks ticking all around you. In stereo the clocks are just in front of you. I was expressing by preference to being a part of the experience by being immersed in the clocks as opposed to observing them in front of you. Kind of hard to describe but easy to experience. Anyway, it is very important that you take the time and effort to make sure you go listen to a surround sound system, hopefully a good or great ML based system and then you can decide if MCH is for you.:rocker:

 

[DTB300]

your description sounds ideal but I think it is only in good SACD and not in 5.1 dvd concerts.

I would agree that MCH SACD is better than DVD Concert/Video, but that is my opinion and I am sure others will disagree due to their favorites and preferences.

 

[itzpms]

most everything is set up for 5.1
the 7.1 systems are pretty useless because it'll be awhile
before the movies, etc. are set up for that.
that's what i'm told by my low voltage guys.

 

[Dreamer]

I'll admit that I was a hard-core 2-channel guy for the last 20 years. But it was when I heard "DTB300's" astounding multichannel setup that I became a convert to 5.1 systems, ESPECIALLY for multi-channel concert DVDs. He kindly hosted a Martin Logan Listening Day at his house a few years ago, and I believe it was the "Eagles" convert video called "Hell Freezes Over", with it's 5.1 DTS soundtrack that nailed it for me. After owning just 2 Martin Logan Sequels for almost 20 years, I embarked on a mission to collect an entirely ML 5.1 setup, and within the year, I'd bought a Logos center channel speaker, and a pristine pair of Scenarios for the rears. My rig sounds different from "DTB300's", but it's still pretty good in it's own right.

I've moved twice since then, and my rig has gone through several different re-designs. Currently I have a scaled-down 5.1 rig (Scenarios as front L/R and Logos as center, with small "bookshelf" speakers as rears) and my Sequels are back in a dedicated 2-ch rig. But I'll admit that I am a DEDICATED 5.1 believer when it comes to movies and concert DVDs, ESPECIALLY the newer stuff on Blu-Ray, which sounds a gazillion times better than standard DVDs...

If you watch a lot of concert DVDs, or are considering getting a Blu-Ray player, I would tell you that 5.1 is NOT an option--it's pretty much a REQUIREMENT to get the most out of your video experience. A properly set up .1 system enhanced the movie experience tremendously, and can make concert videos "the next best thing to being there". And if you have cable or satellite, there is a LOT of programming being broadcast these days that is also in 5.1. If you get PBS in High Def, the concert programs are almost all in Dolby 5.1--Mountain Stage, Austin City Limits, etc. I've seen a LOT of great concerts on ACL recently that had beautiful camera work, and REALLY fine soundtracks too.

Good luck in your pursuit of this hobby. It can lead to a LOT of research, work, and tweeking, but in the end, a well-set-up 5.1 rig is a great thing, IMO...

--Richard

 

[JMAUSGP]

According to Blu-raystats.com there are currently 69 Blu-Ray movies that have been released so far in 7.1 surround sound and new ones are being added on a weekly basis. The experience of hearing a good movie with a great 7.1 surround sound track with an 8 channel Martin Logan sound system is not to be missed. Also there are several different music surround modes that can take a 5.1 source and simulate a 7.1 surround sound. With surround sound you can never be too rich, too thin or have too many surround channels.....okay maybe you could but you would go deaf trying to find out how many is too many.