5.1 setup w/ Motion LX16s?

[ikarius]

So, this weekend I happened to go into my local audio shop, and noticed this gorgeous new pair of speakers they had recently set up. Turned out, they were MartinLogan LX16s. I gave them a listen, and they sounded amazingly sweet to me. Warm, detailed, spacious, all the things I look for in a speaker.

I'm likely picking them up soon, but I'm wondering what speakers I should end up partnering with them for a 5.1 setup.

I had just started to assemble a system for a new space, which is moderately constrained- I definitely don't have room for tower speakers, and placing 2 surround speakers will be difficult enough, there's no way I'm going to set up a full 7.1 in this room.

I've been looking through the ML line to try and discern what will pair well with these, and the rest of the motion line is a bit iffy looking to me. The baffling in the Motion 4s looks too much like tricks Bose played.

What I already have; AVR is a Marantx NR-1402; 85 watts per chanel. I have a Final Sound 8" sub which should match pretty nicely, considering it's source and design.
Info about Final S110

For a center, the EM C2 looks like it would match the best with the LX16s and would also fit my cabinetry, but it seems pretty darn expensive.

As far as the surrounds go, I'm really not sure. Should I stick with something from the ML line, or are there reasonable options which would mesh well and save me some $?

For points of reference on my tastes:
Old system is Marantz separate Amp/Preamp, Vandersteen 2CE mains, VCC-1 center, DefTech 12" sub, and Paradigm Atom surrounds.

Favored Audition music:
Dire straits - The Man's too Strong, Telegraph Road
Lou Reed - How do you think it feels
Genesis - Firth of Fifth
And a large mish-mash of progressive, jazz, pop and metal.

 

[roberto]

Hola.. please do not get me wrong here with my reply to your post: ML products have a kind of magic that most other lack of... I am not saying that you have a bad system, but I assure you that with the new Electromotions as front and a Motif as center, using your Atom Paradigm as surround, with the Defthech sub, you will be in another dimension... put your money here... and you won't regret it... happy listening.

 

[ikarius]

Roberto,
The Electomotion mains are too large for my space, and the Motif is WAY past my budget. I'm already going past what I'd allocated for this system, but I couldn't turn away after hearing what the Motion LX16s could do for their price. I'm trying to figure out what I can assemble that will match up with the LX16s for a reasonable price point.

I am sure I'd enjoy what you're suggesting, but it's not a fit for my system at this time.

 

[JonFo]

I'd recommend the largest Motion center you can afford (and place), along with some Motion 2's for surround duties. If you can swing it, the new Motion FX side speakers look pretty good.

The folded port in the Motions is no gimmick, just good science and very nice packaging.

BTW- if you are prog fan, the most awesome Genesis cover is Jordan Rudess doing "Dance on a Volcano" on his superb-sounding disc "the Road Home". That's true demo/test material.

 

[projectormovielover]

Your have no choice but to go with a c2 for center because of the folded motion tweeters . The fx2 would be great for side surrounds but they seem to have a 6 1/2 inch cone unlike the the c2 and lx16 that have 5 1/2 inch cones ? Maybe the fx would do some good and cost less but your going to need another set of lx16 for the back or side surrounds .

There is no cheap way of doing things with martin logan speakers. Thats the price you pay for amazing sound

 

[ikarius]

Umm, both the C and C2 have the folded motion tweeters. From what I see, the differences between them are that the C is 24" wide and has 4" drivers, and the C2 is 18" wide and has 5.25" drivers.

Both the C and the C2 are MTM designs, with dual front ports.

I'm not sure why the C2 is shorter from side to side when it has larger drivers, but that's what the specs say.

The primary reasons for me to lean towards the C2 is the fact that it's drivers are the same size (and I suspect actually the same) as the drivers in the LX16s, which would probably lead to a better match with the LX16s, and the fact that it's narrower from side to side.

The question probably comes down to auditioning both of them with the LX16s, and figuring out if I can manage to fit the C, if I can't hear a substantive difference between the two.

 

[ikarius]

Actually, I just noticed, the Folded Motion ribbon tweeter in the C matches the tweeter in the LX16, and the C2 has a slightly different ribbon tweeter. So, the C2 drivers match the LX16, and the C tweeter matches the LX16. Grumble.

 

[JonFo]

IMHO, match the tweeters, more important to get that range exact.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

The C2 or even a Motion 8 will be fine as the tweeter is the same as the LX 16s. EMC2 uses a larger tweeter so we can go down farther in crossove over point so it will come closer to the stat of a EMESL. Don't forget that there are two drivers in the C2 so total surface area will be similiar to the LX 16s single woofer. We spend a lot of time to do our best to voice match across all of our goods as we know budgets, size are often a big factor in getting into a system. As to surround, FX, FXs are very cool. A recent review of a EMESL, EMC2, FX2 pointed out how good the FX2 was in the system. FX would be a great way to make the room sound bigger. Budget limits are what they are so Motion 2s will work well since it is the same tweeter and voicing from us. Key to successful home theater is voice matching and all bets are off when one mixes and matches outside of lines. 5 matched inexpensive usually beats 5 mismatched expensive.
Thanks for comments on the LX 16, a personal fave of mine. Reminds me of the good old days of selling LS3/5as. And they sure are pretty.

 

[ikarius]

I wanted to return after having spent some real time with the LX-16s.

The LX-16s are simply fantastic speakers. 10 years ago, I built my previous system, and I ended up going with Vandersteen speakers, choosing them over Paradigm as the other primary consideration. The Paradigm speakers were very accurate and provided good detail, but when I listened to music, they were a bit cold and detached for my taste. Vandersteens brought a warmth to the sound which really worked for me.

I've spent some time listening to the LX16s and my old Vandersteen speakers, and ... the LX16s bring in details at the mid-high end which are actually missing when listening to the Vandersteens. The LX16s also bring the warm, open sound which I appreciate. All in all, I am incredibly impressed with the LX16s. They clearly outperform my old main speakers, despite being small bookshelf speakers.

One last comment- I will be auditioning ML C2 verus ML C for center channel and FX versus Motion 2 for surrounds. The C2 is nearly a foregone conclusion, as the cabinet I have will not fit the C for width. I'm not sure why, but both the Motion 8 and the Motion C are extremely wide. I suspect I'll end up with C2 center and FX surrounds, which will give me identical 5.25" drivers all around. I am really excited about this new system, as I never expected to exceed my old system with a smaller budget and smaller components, but that's where I am now expecting to end up.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

if you are the customer that goes to Soundscape in santa rosa, we apologize for the back order situation on the dark cherry. C2 will also be out of backorder by the mid December area. Glad you like the 16s. As I have said, a personal favorite. as to why the other centers are wide, they are often mounted on wall so to get internal air volume, you make them wide but shallow. C2 is deeper in order to get that airvolume. Plan on getting the FX. the advantage on dispersion for surround effect is very obvious. I have 4s that i just put up, now wish i had done FX, given the affect i have had on other jobs. More seemless on pans from front to back.

 

[ikarius]

Hah! I do happen to be going to Soundscape in Santa Rosa, however, I am not the one who ended up having to wait for their dark cherrywood LX-16s; I believe I got the speakers for that fellow when the owner was on vacation. Oops! I literally walked in to pick up a replacement for a wireless gadget, saw the LX-16s, listened to them and took them home that afternoon. I have NOT been disappointed.

This weekend, the EM-C2 center I wanted came in, and I got to listen to it with some LX-16s. I have to say, the voice-matching across the front soundstage is absolutely flawless to my ears.

I am still waiting on the FX speakers to show up, as the ML rep apparently sent EFX speakers instead of FXes. Woops!

Still, I cannot wait for the FX speakers to arrive so I can enjoy the whole system @ 5.1.

 

[Peter Soderberg]

yes, we made an error on order entry and as of yesterday, fx shouldbe on the way. Yes, you did get a pair of cherrys intended for another who has been waiting quite awhile as the cherry finish caused some delays. that too has been rectified and the long waiting customer shoulkd have them soon.

 

[ikarius]

Peter-
Thanks for the update- I'm very anxiously awaiting the FX surrounds to complete my system.

I do have another comment- I think you ought to consider pushing LX-16 + EM C2 + FX and potentially one of your subwoofers (perhaps the dynamo 600?) as a full 5.1 speaker bundle, or at least the 5-speaker system minus the subwoofer. All of your HT "bundles" seem to focus on the lower end of the motion line.... I'm pretty convinced you ought to be able to sell a *lot* of the LX-16s. Here's hoping that ML sees some serious sales boosts with these products (above what you sell in ESL speakers). I think (or at least hope) you might end up picking up more ESL customers as folks enjoy these products and eventually "upgrade" to ESL.


Anyhow, that system seems to me to be one which could upsell a lot of people who started out looking around the motion line.

Cheers
Ikarius

 

[Peter Soderberg]

already on the radar. the Lx 16 is goiing to have some brothers coming to fill that middle area. ces starts next week remember. the package you describe sounds stunning when all put together. we may finally be getting our act together on entry level, non esl based systems that sound, look good at very fair pricing.

 

[ikarius]

Peter,
Glad to hear it. One last question for you- I promise

I'm currently driving this speaker setup with a really piddly marantz NR-1402.

I'm looking at likely going to a preamp/amp setup. I'm likely not straying from a 5-channel amp, and I currently own (in my old setup) a Marantz MM-9000, which is 150wpc 5-channel.

Due to budgeting, I'm likely to purchase a pre-amp/AVR first, and pair it with the MM-9000 at least initially, then contemplate replacing the MM-9000 down the road a bit further. My initial impulse is to go with a Marantz SR6006, as I know the Marantz configuration by now, and I'm reasonably satisfied with the sound. I can pick up one of those refurbished (authorized) for ~ $800.

What recommendations would you make for driving the ML speakers I've got?

Is there something else you feel would provide substantially better price/performance than the SR6006? Do you think the MM-9000 will do a reasonable job, or would you be determined to upgrade to some other 5-channel amp (and if so, which one). One example of what I'd probably be looking at initially would be an Emotiva XPA-5...

 

[Peter Soderberg]

I think you are on the right path with the 6006 and its pre outs to the amp. Marantz seems to have a hot hand this year in the reciever wars so go ahead as a better more reasonable alternative to separate pre pros at least in these rapidly changing times. The speakers aren't fussy about power needs. I am sure your 9000 will serve you well. Later, you can experiment with two channel amps and let the reciever power center and rears.

 

[ikarius]

Peter-
Thanks! Sounds like Marantz 6006 + MM-9000 it is!