Jeff Rowland or McIntosh?

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beefchowmein

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I think the recent Aerius i purchase is digging a hole through my wallet.:eek:
I loved the speaker even powering it with the Jolida 302b. But I just kept looking for what more power will make it sound.
Anyways, I have a chance to buy a Jeff Rowland Model 1 as well as a McIntosh MC500. Not sure if this is a fair comparison considering it's 120watt into 4 ohm vs 500watt. And huge retail price difference as well as older amp vs newer amp.
Anyways, does anyone have any experience with either amp powering an Aerius i? or any Martin Logans?
 
beefchowmein said:
I loved the speaker even powering it with the Jolida 302b. But I just kept looking for what more power will make it sound.
Click to expand...

I know nothing of the Jeff Rowland or the Mac, but since I think you liked the Jolida except for the power, I can heartily recommend the Jolida JD 1000RC. This amp, used with the Aerius, is a perfect match.
 
beefchowmein said:
I think the recent Aerius i purchase is digging a hole through my wallet.:eek:
I loved the speaker even powering it with the Jolida 302b. But I just kept looking for what more power will make it sound.
Anyways, I have a chance to buy a Jeff Rowland Model 1 as well as a McIntosh MC500. Not sure if this is a fair comparison considering it's 120watt into 4 ohm vs 500watt. And huge retail price difference as well as older amp vs newer amp.
Anyways, does anyone have any experience with either amp powering an Aerius i? or any Martin Logans?
Click to expand...

I have not heard those 2 a/b, but I have heard several models of Mcintosh with the Ascents and Vantages. I have also heard the newer Rowlands in another system. The Rowlands I heard had a clean sound, with a somewhat thinner midrange. They also had more power than the one you are looking at. It is not my cup of tea, but you may like it.

I do like the sound of Mac and Logan synergy. I have heard the tubed 275, the 352, and the 402. They all sound great for the price. It took a $9K tubed Bat to beat the $4K MC 275. It took a $9K Ayre to beat out the 402. The Mac midrange is lush, but a bit mushy. Some people are really turned off by it. However, I would be willing to bet that the power of the 500 would make your speakers sound amazing. I would try to audition the 500 against a more similarly priced competitor.

Best of luck!
 
  • Why are you contemplating going from tube to ss?
  • I agree you need more power for that speaker, but there are plenty of tube amps that will give you more than enough power and woofer control for that speaker -- you don't need to bi-amp.
  • As you move up to more amp power (ss or tube) I'd advise against integrateds because the inevitable design compromises will begin to show themselves with more powerful amplification. And you are making future flexibility difficult.
  • I'd recommend buying a used Mac MC275 Mk IV or V which you can get in new condition for ~$2500 +/_ (the new ones just went up $1K to $4900 BTW) They both have RCA and XLR inputs and put out 90W/ch (with only 2- KT88's/ch.)
  • Get a decent preamp, hopefully with XLR outs, or no preamp if you're just using a single (CD) source. If one day you want more poop, get another MC275 and switch them both into mono and you'll have 180W/ch.
Of course you can get a brand new, modded/upgraded Jolida 1000RC from Underwood HiFi for about $2800. Hard to beat budget-wise ;)
 
Looked at two Mac 275 today. Brand spanking new, 3700 bucks. Dealer showed me the new price increase from Mac, everything is going up as of April 1. That 3700 may not be cut in stone. May be able to get them a bit cheaper. Even the dealer made comment that the prices are out of hand.
 
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Bernard said:
Interesting (curious) choice of words :bowdown: :cool:
Click to expand...
Poop? Well, I want a word that does not mean more volume, SPL or dB. Something more along the lines of the 1940's word 'moxie'. I want a word that means more: strength, reserve power, control, ease (i.e. less strain) and so forth, all rolled into one. Suggestions welcome . . . . . . . .
 
Along the same lines as nsgarch and slowgeezer you have plenty of tube options regardless of budget.

As Neil(nsgarch) has said replacing the stock tubes in his '275' with some better NOS varities has brought that peice to another sonic plateau, I too can say the same thing for my Rogue M-150 Monoblocks.

so if you really like the overall 'tube sound' I would dismiss it just yet !
 
nsgarch said:
  • Why are you contemplating going from tube to ss?

    I was thinking of using the Jeff Rowland to power the sub and keep the Jolida to power the panels. But my friend is trying to sell me his mc500 thus all of the sudden that became a choice. But for the price of the mc500, I agree with most of you, I would rather get an mc275. But the thought of what it would sound like with that much McIntosh power on the Aerius. Not to mention I wasn't really prepare to spend that much yet.

    Anyways, I end up picking up the Jeff Rowland. Currently borrowing a Rotel RC-1070 pre-amp from a friend to try it out. The sound is pretty smooth, almost tube like with the very clear vocals. Gonna try this combo for a few days then try bi-amping with the Jolida.
    I know the Jolida is an integrated amp, but from doing some googling, sounds like it's ok to use an integrated with a pre-amp. Some suggest turn the volume all the way up on the integrated. I guess I'll have to play with it and see how that sound.

    One thing that surprise me quite a bit with the Aerius i and the Rowland/Rotel combo. It actually plays trance music quite well. I usually listen to classical, classical jazz, vocal jazz on the home system while leaving the trance/rock/hip-hop music to the car system. But I decided to pop the trance cd in to see how it sounds. Was quite please with what I heard. It adds another level of clarity to the music.
Click to expand...
 
Bernard said:
Forgive me for being concerned, but TRANCE music while driving? :eek: Scary !!
Click to expand...

Trance can be enjoy without substance abuse :music: :D

I did some more listening today. For some reason classical don't sound quite right to me. I seem to lost quite a bit of detail and clarity as comparing with just the Jolida with the Minipod speaker. I have to turn the music pretty loud to regain some of the details but not clarity. But it still didn't sound as good. When there is a lot of instruments it just kinda all blended together instead of being able to pick out what instrument as well as their placement in the symphony. I was playing Stravinsky's The Rite of Spring and Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique both should be able to demonstrate the ranges.
The system seems to sound the best with concerto type of music. Like the sound track from Schindler's List where the violin solos really stands out.
Also vocal jazz like Sinatra and Diana Krall as well as trance sounds the best.

Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? Speaker placement? (Right now it's front facing about 2 1/2 feet from back wall and 1 1/2 from the right side wall. The left side is open. The Bi-amping?
Pre-amp is the Rotel RC1070 bi-amp to Jolida 302b to the panel and Jeff Rowland Model 1 to the sub.
 
Just a guess but I would be eyeing the Rotel first. Try using the Rowland full range as it is totally capable of throwing a holographic SS with great detail and clarity. My $.02
 
I agree with Risabet. You may be experiencing some limitations in the Jolida and/or the Rotel pre. Try the Rowland full-range and see what differences you hear. Do you have your gains matched between the two amps? That could possibly make a difference if there is a preponderance of bass over midrange. Having one side wall and the other side open may also hurt your imaging and soundstaging some.
 
beefchowmein said:
I know the Jolida is an integrated amp, but from doing some googling, sounds like it's ok to use an integrated with a pre-amp. Some suggest turn the volume all the way up on the integrated. I guess I'll have to play with it and see how that sound.
Click to expand...

Would you please tell me how you hooked a preamp up to the 302? To one of the inputs? How did you bypass the built in preamp of the 302? Also, does the 302 have a variable output? If so, you might try just connecting the variable output to the Rowland amp and control both the 302 amp and the Rowland amp with the volume control on the 302. I'm thinking your new low sound level may have something to do with the connection of the preamp to your 302.
 
slowGEEZR said:
Would you please tell me how you hooked a preamp up to the 302? To one of the inputs? How did you bypass the built in preamp of the 302? Also, does the 302 have a variable output? If so, you might try just connecting the variable output to the Rowland amp and control both the 302 amp and the Rowland amp with the volume control on the 302. I'm thinking your new low sound level may have something to do with the connection of the preamp to your 302.
Click to expand...

I just plug the preamp into the 302 CD Input. I didn't do any mod to bypass the built in preamp. It does not have a variable output. I did try playing with the volume knob on the 302 to get varies results. At fully open, with the Pre-amp at 1/2 tends to be lacking in the lower ranges. At half open on the 302, the sound seems very dark. A good balance seems to be at 3/4 open on the 302. But still lacking in clarity.
Sounds like I might have to upgrade the 302 to a dedicated tube amp as well as get a better pre-amp? I picked up NIK's Cary CAD-5500 tube pre. Hopefully that'll arrive sometime this week. Hoping that would extend my life of my cd-player. Likewise, hopefully that's a step up from the Rotel preamp?

I will have to give it another listening tonight with just the JR running full range.

After doing some more search on this forum got me thinking about the MC275 as a replacement for the 302. What do you guys think using the MC275 to run the panels and the JR to power the sub? Or is it just better to run the MC275 full range or just keep the JR full range (most cost effective right now ;))? I am still partial to the tube sound though.

Also, Rich mention that having one side wall open might hurt the image and sound stage. Anything as far as room treatment I can do? Also, I have to some how make it eye pleasing so my wife either won't notice or won't complain. One other thing to add, I measure the distance between the speakers. It comes in at about 6 feet. Would spreading them more apart (I read some said 8 feet or so) to get a better sound stage?

I know I'm switch too many variables right now but the quest for the perfect sonic balance is a never ending money pit :)
 
Beef (Gotta love the moniker)
The Rowland is one musical amplifier and I think you're not giving it a fair chance by putting the Rotel AND the Jolida (preamp) in front of it. The result is exactly what I'd expect: lack of detail & clarity. You'll need to put a good preamp in front of the Rowland to realize its full sonic potential.
Good choice to pick up the Cary CAD-5500 pre to match with the Rowland. You'll probably find out afterward that the Rowland is sufficient by itself. Going with a Mc275 may only be a marginal improvement over the Rowland full-range. Be patient with the Rowland before jumping into the Mc275.

Good luck
Spike
 
BCM,

I think you're making a mistake by taking the output of one preamp and connecting it to the input of another preamp. I'm just thinking this through and not talking down to you and welcome anyone's comments. Here's my thinking...The preamp takes a line level signal and amplifies it to enough voltage to be of use to an amp. If you connect one preamp to another, I think you are inputting more than line level into that second preamp (unless you have the first preamp's volume completely attenuated and what would be the point of that?), you're actually inputting into the second preamp the level needed by the amplifier portion and therefore are you are overdriving the second preamp it. This could explain the bad sound. Have you tried running both amps with just the preamp of the Jolida, yet?
 
Too bad the Jolida 302b is a integrated amp and there is no pre-amp out so I couldn't use the pre-amp portion only.

But, it does sounds like I might have the right equipment already. Just have to give it some time. I guess I'm like a excited kid in a candy store right now with the Aerius speaker. No patience, just running in circles. :D

Next few things to try.
1. Rotel with the Rowland only.
2. When the Cary get here, Cary with the Rowland.

Let these run for a few weeks before making additional unnecessary purchase!!
 
beefchowmein said:
Too bad the Jolida 302b is a integrated amp and there is no pre-amp out so I couldn't use the pre-amp portion only.
Click to expand...

No preamp out? Sorry, I didn't know, else I wouldn't have suggested using the 302 as the preamp. I have both a fixed and variable preamp out on my Jolida, so I assumed you did, too. My bad.
 
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