Will using other feet than the supplied ones be beneficial?

[RDC]

Hi guys, I'm looking at other feet for my ML Montis. Something like these puppy's: http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-ii/.

But I'm wondering if they will give any benefit when used with an ESL. Does anybody have experience with these feet or something comparable?

Thanks for your time,

RDC

 

[RCHeliGuy]

I've found the biggest differences had to do with adjusting the height of my speakers of the angle of the speakers whether I was using the stock spikes or the stock rubber mounts.

I've tried blocks of wood under spikes etc..

If you want things to sound different, I'd tweak the angle or height of your speakers.

I was surprised that I could get the same sound with spikes on wooden blocks or rubber mounts on a pile of books. Go figure!

 

[RDC]

Thanks Mark. Previously I've changed the angle with the default spikes so that the panels are as vertical (straight up) as possible with those. That helped considerably in the clarity of the mids and highs.
They're elevated a bit, about 2", as I have them standing on 1" slabs of granite that themselves are decoupled by rubber feet. And that helped out to clean up the bass, but never thought about the height effect itself. I was thinking that IF I get the GAIA's I could remove the slabs of granite. But maybe I shouldn't.

 

[GW1800]

Hi guys, I'm looking at other feet for my ML Montis. Something like these puppy's: http://www.isoacoustics.com/products/gaia-series/gaia-ii/.

But I'm wondering if they will give any benefit when used with an ESL. Does anybody have experience with these feet or something comparable?

Thanks for your time,

RDC

Absolutely replacing the stock feet with some type of isolation device will definitely help - actually quite a bit. I'm not familiar with what you are calling out however I am with Nordost Sort Fut which have worked well with my CLX's, Rack, QB8, QBase and 212's. Thinking of adding them to my 13's and subs in the media room just have not got to it yet. You just need to find what you are comfortable with price wise. Here is a review to read: https://nordost.com/images/review-images/review-pdf/389_Nordost Sort_Fut_eng.pdf

 

[RDC]

Thanks. I'm not comfortable with spending upwards of € 2000 on 8 feet. The GAIA III's are expensive enough at around € 500 (per 8). But good to hear they work for you.

 

[RDC]

I've ordered the GAIA III's. I'll give an update after I've received them.

 

[twich54]

I've ordered the GAIA III's. I'll give an update after I've received them.

smart move, I agree completely with not spending 2000 euros on feet ! When I look at the link for the Nordost product and saw that ridiculous picture of 'Joe audiophile' on his hands and knees with B&W speakers buried BEHIND all that gear out in front of the speakers I wanted to scream ! besides I'm not an Nordost fan .........

 

[GW1800]

smart move, I agree completely with not spending 2000 euros on feet ! When I look at the link for the Nordost product and saw that ridiculous picture of 'Joe audiophile' on his hands and knees with B&W speakers buried BEHIND all that gear out in front of the speakers I wanted to scream ! besides I'm not an Nordost fan .........

Got to admit what you said about the placement of the speakers is so wrong. However I’m completely surprised at your apparent approval on the isolation feet. I would of thought you would of lumped them with cables which we all know you are not a believer.

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Got to admit what you said about the placement of the speakers is so wrong. However I’m completely surprised at your apparent approval on the isolation feet. I would of thought you would of lumped them with cables which we all know you are not a believer.

I think height vertical angle and canting make a pretty noticeable difference. I was surprised to see that I could get the same sound with spikes or rubber feet as long as I got the same height and angle.

The spikes by themselves add height over the rubber feet which don't have the adjustments the spikes allow.

To your comment, many people argue that using spikes gives you better sound by making a very solid connection with your floor.

However the rubber feet would actually offer more isolation.

In this comparison isolation would be more similar to rubber feet than spiked feet.

 

[twich54]

Got to admit what you said about the placement of the speakers is so wrong. However I’m completely surprised at your apparent approval on the isolation feet. I would of thought you would of lumped them with cables which we all know you are not a believer.

LOL, my comment was meant to convey my feelings regarding spending silly amounts of $$$. As for cables, I fully understand the need, it's just that fundamentally sound cables that are well engineered need not cost a fortune.

 

[adeep42]

I've ordered the GAIA III's. I'll give an update after I've received them.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts about the Gaias. I just ordered two sets of Gaia IIs as well as the necessary adapters for the ML thread size.

 

[RDC]

They are installed. Before and after I recorded a selection of my 'review' song-snippets. I made a simple video (as in, it has no distractions) where I switch every 15 seconds between the situation before and after. The video can be downloaded from here.

My microphone, which I normally only use for voice chat with friends, isn't up to the task. It introduces a lot of noise and doesn't capture the real situation well. But with nothing better at hand, it had to do. Just use the video to (try to) hear the changes in sound. But please don't think that it's even close to the sound quality that I myself hear. That would be embarrassing.

I have filtered the microphone induced noise out a bit by creating a noise profile of my microphone and applying the same noise filter on both recordings. Using the video software I chopped up the recordings into 15 second tracks and added text to let you know when it's using spikes or the GAIA III's. For the rest it's basically a black canvas, so that you can concentrate on the sound.

My conclusion so far is that there is a noticeable change, bigger than I am able to hear back in the video. I would describe it as cleaner, clearer and crisper.
Also noticeable was that the bass is less prominently present then before, but is also better defined.
The GAIA's, still sitting on the slab of granite, do a better job than the spikes. I will need to get the measurement mic out again to adjust the room equalisation profiles...

What I also like is that the GAIA's have suction cup feet. So on the granite slab their is no way that I can bump them of the slab. They're stuck to it quite firmly. With the spikes I had to be a bit careful about bumping into them.

FYI:
Audio captures with Auna Mic-900 USB microphone and Audacity as audio software. Noise filter applied with Audacity. Video created with the free version of DaVinci Resolve 15. Nothing else was changed apart from the spikes. All placements before and after are the same.

 

[twich54]

Congrats, I can see your smile all the way over here !

 

[adeep42]

Received my Gaia IIs this morning. Installed them immediately of course. Patience is not one of my better attributes. Think that RDC hit it on the nose. Presentation seems cleaner, clearer and crisper. As he stated bass is a tad less prominent but more defined and refined. Heard that right away listening for acoustic bass. It may be that previously the bass was the slightest bit muddy.

I love tweaks like this. Reasonable(?) cost that elevate my system just a little but noticeable.

Alan

 

[RCHeliGuy]

Did you get the speakers to the exact same height with spikes or are they now higher ?

 

[adeep42]

They're a tiny bit higher, but I haven't made any adjustments to rake, position or toe in.

 

[RDC]

Did you get the speakers to the exact same height with spikes or are they now higher ?

The difference is very small. I measured that they are now about 0.195" (0.5cm) higher, when using only one of the ring nuts instead of using both.
So compared to the average differences in my head placement, I would say that this amount of elevation has no noticeable influence.



You can also see the effect of the rake on the angle of the feet's metal casing in relation to the rubber feet.

 

[RDC]

Received my Gaia IIs this morning. Installed them immediately of course. Patience is not one of my better attributes. Think that RDC hit it on the nose. Presentation seems cleaner, clearer and crisper. As he stated bass is a tad less prominent but more defined and refined. Heard that right away listening for acoustic bass. It may be that previously the bass was the slightest bit muddy.

Thanks Alan. It's nice to hear that we experience the same improvements.

 

[RDC]

Someone asked me via a private message what my thoughts were on the GAIA III's after using them a while. Basically he asked; "Was it worth it?"

I think it's very hard to give an accurate answer, because just after installation I might have remembered what the 'before' sound was. After a while you get used to the sound and any comparison is impossible in my mind. The new sound is just 'the sound'. Switching feet isn't something easily done, but that should be done to be able to compare again. I won't.

But I'll try to answer. First of all they seem to have stiffened up a little bit. Installed freshly I think they were more wobbly when pushing the speaker around a bit. Not sure if this is due to the rubber stiffening up or the prolonged weight added to them. They still move around, no doubt about it, just not as flexible as before. It doesn't seem to be a huge difference.

The sound is still the best I've had. But as I said before, I can't compare it, it just feels like the best I've ever had. Was it worth spending € 500? For me it was. I did hear a noticeable difference when I just switched to them. But any change to my systems seems to be getting a smaller and smaller improvement.

So if it would be worth it for you probably depends on what your situation is right now. If you have an untreated room, I would first invest in room treatment, before using other feet. The proper use of absorption and/or diffusion panels will result in a way bigger improvement. Secondly I would consider using some form of room equalisation. Again, used properly, it will make a bigger change and be cheaper than changing the feet.

 

[adeep42]

RDC and I have been like the Bobsy Twins on this thread. It's interesting that our observances have been very similar as well as some of our attitudes.

My Gaia IIs have definitely stiffened up somewhat. I've attributed that to compression from having 75 pounds of Summit X constantly on top of them.

I also share the concept that it is almost impossible to go back and judge the difference between the system now and what it sounded like before the change. It is what it is and if that makes you happy, excellent. If you are a professional reviewer and have the equipment to constantly change components back and forth as well as make the most accurate notes, trying to mentally A/B is impossible.

That said, I remain delighted with my system in it's current configuration. None the less, I'm sure there'll be changes in the future.