Why We Love Mono Block Amplifiers So Much?

[Steve Daigneault]

Hmmm.. ok let's set the ground rules.

- Let's say that the Rotel monoblocks are essentially the same as the each of the dual monos of the Rotel RB1090.
- Let's say that the Rotel monoblocks cost approximately 1250$ each and the Rotel 1090 is $2000.
- Let's say that they should sound the same.... technically similar so I dont see what the difference could be.

Ok... what would I choose?

I would go with the Rotel RB1090 dual mono.. why? Because it's cheaper and just as effective. However, if I had the money, I could see why I would go with the monoblocks... easier to place, easier to lift (lighter), and just plain cooler.

But I'm me, and I'm somewhat strapped.

With the Vantages, I'd go with quality watt over quantity. I've got plenty of power with 50w Cary's, and they sound a hell of a lot better to my ears than a 140 watt Conrad Johnson 140, which I thought would be awesome, because of the extra power. Wrong. Go with the better sounding, lesser watt amp. If you're going to spend extra cash on another 1090, why not upgrade to a better sounding amp?

 

[Joey_V]

With the Vantages, I'd go with quality watt over quantity. I've got plenty of power with 50w Cary's, and they sound a hell of a lot better to my ears than a 140 watt Conrad Johnson 140, which I thought would be awesome, because of the extra power. Wrong. Go with the better sounding, lesser watt amp. If you're going to spend extra cash on another 1090, why not upgrade to a better sounding amp?

Steve,

Have you heard both the Cary and the RB1090 side by side? If not, I would hesitate to say that just because the 50w Cary sound better than higher watt CJ140 that it would be an easy win over the 1090. The 1090 has been well received and I figured for a little over a $1K on the used market, I could move up the end of the Rotel road. I've talked to Jeff_Z alot regarding this and I feel that the 1090 seems like the next logical step (it is a definite upgrade from the 1070 no question about it) before cooling off a little and then going to the super amps at a later date.

Joey

 

[Steve Daigneault]

Steve,

Have you heard both the Cary and the RB1090 side by side? If not, I would hesitate to say that just because the 50w Cary sound better than higher watt CJ140 that it would be an easy win over the 1090. The 1090 has been well received and I figured for a little over a $1K on the used market, I could move up the end of the Rotel road. I've talked to Jeff_Z alot regarding this and I feel that the 1090 seems like the next logical step (it is a definite upgrade from the 1070 no question about it) before cooling off a little and then going to the super amps at a later date.

Joey

I wasn't saying get a Cary, and I definitely wasn't saying "my amp sounds better than yours" crap. I was just curious why you'd want to get two monoblock 1090s, which is two 1090's, right? and you get double the power? Did I misunderstand?

My point was, more power on the Vantages wouldn't be where I focus the effort, they don't need a ton of power.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Steve,
Let me jump in here. I think what Joey means is he is looking for a (1) used Rotel 1090. I believe they are around $1300 used. The Rotel 1090 is a SS amp that is a basic dual mono design. What it is a dual mono amps that share the same chasis and power cord but beyond that they are mono amps.


Jeff

 

[Steve Daigneault]

Steve,
Let me jump in here. I think what Joey means is he is looking for a (1) used Rotel 1090. I believe they are around $1300 used. The Rotel 1090 is a SS amp that is a basic dual mono design. What it is a dual mono amps that share the same chasis and power cord but beyond that they are mono amps.


Jeff

oh yeh, i was totally confused then. for what it's worth, the rotel's i've heard have been decent for solid state.

 

[Jeff Zaret]

Steve,
I would have kept mine if it was not for the "pull" at higher volumes my CLSiiZ's have. My CJ is great but is SS not tube.

Jeff

 

[Spike]

Have you heard both the Cary and the RB1090 side by side? If not, I would hesitate to say that just because the 50w Cary sound better than higher watt CJ140 that it would be an easy win over the 1090.

I have auditioned my friend's Rotel RB1090 in my system, albeit the older ML ReQuests instead of the newer Vantages. When compared with the likes of Classe', Threshold T400, Llano, BAT VK200, Pass Aleph 3, Aragon 8008BB, ARC VT100, Cary V12R, AES SixPacs (in my system), the Rotel sounded...veiled, lacking the tone & musicality of the others, especially the tubed competitions. I should clarify that the Rotel is a fine amplifier in its own right, but when compared directly with my Clase' or the SixPacs, the differences became noticeable only when going from my amplifiers to the Rotel, not the other way around. Of the ones mentioned, the Pass Aleph 3 sounded best for the SS camp (eventhough under powered). The big surprise here was that the Cary V12R sounded best being a stereo configuration, edging out the monobloc AES SixPacs with almost identical circuitry. Go figure. When asked, Dennis Had confirmed that he had to work hard to make the Cary sound better than the SixPacs in order to justify for its price differential
The idea (which I've been repeating quite a few times already) is that the Vantage and Summits don't need a whole lot of power given their built-in bass amplifiers. They need a good, medium powered amplifier to make them shine, or sing rather.

Spike

 

[Wardsweb]

Over the years my CLS's have been through many amps to realize I need a lot more solid state watts and currents than I do when using tubes.

Carver m1.5t
solid state stereo amp
350 wpc into 8
Clip this one even at medium levels

Carver TFM-35
solid state stereo
250 wpc into 8, 400 into 4, 750 into 2
Could clip this one when pushed hard

Carver A-500x
solid state stereo
250 wpc into 8, 400 into 4, 750 into 2
current limited at 2 ohm
Didn't clip but wasn't comfortable with the meter swings

Carver A-760x
solid state stereo
380 wpc into 8, 600 into 4, 1150 into 2
current limited at 1 ohm
walk in the park, effortless


Shanling SP-80
EL34 tube mono blocks (using EH6CA7 "fat bottles")
50 wpc into 8
sweet music and still handle home theater duty.

I've got a pair of Carver Silver 7t amps coming this saturday. I'll let you know how they do.

Now as to why I like mono blocks; current capability, weight and esthetics.

 

[kach22i]

I've got a pair of Carver Silver 7t amps coming this saturday. I'll let you know how they do.

No way dude, very cool.


http://www.exoticaudio.org/Page6.html

 

[twich54]

I have auditioned my friend's Rotel RB1090 in my system, albeit the older ML ReQuests instead of the newer Vantages. When compared with the likes of Classe', Threshold T400, Llano, BAT VK200, Pass Aleph 3, Aragon 8008BB, ARC VT100, Cary V12R, AES SixPacs (in my system), the Rotel sounded...veiled, lacking the tone & musicality of the others, especially the tubed competitions. I should clarify that the Rotel is a fine amplifier in its own right, but when compared directly with my Clase' or the SixPacs, the differences became noticeable only when going from my amplifiers to the Rotel, not the other way around. Of the ones mentioned, the Pass Aleph 3 sounded best for the SS camp (eventhough under powered). The big surprise here was that the Cary V12R sounded best being a stereo configuration, edging out the monobloc AES SixPacs with almost identical circuitry. Go figure. When asked, Dennis Had confirmed that he had to work hard to make the Cary sound better than the SixPacs in order to justify for its price differential
The idea (which I've been repeating quite a few times already) is that the Vantage and Summits don't need a whole lot of power given their built-in bass amplifiers. They need a good, medium powered amplifier to make them shine, or sing rather.

Spike

Spike, Lets compare apples -to- apples, all the amps you mentioned cost considerably more than the Rotel, except maybe the Aragon. I myself auditioned several of your mention amps when listrning to Vantag'e / Summitt's at my Dealer and yes loved the Classe', ARC(tubed) but please don't think for a minute that anything "current" by Aragon is better than Rotel(I owned Aragon back in the day before "Klipsch" , now they are of Adcom quality). Besides in the sub-$2000 range the Rotel has little competition. I think we all (myself included) get wrapped up in the "upgrade" mode too much and lose sight of great music being played before us !! That being said I'm still in the hunt for my Pass Labs 250.5 !!!

 

[Wardsweb]

No way dude, very cool.
http://www.exoticaudio.org/Page6.html

I wish. Those are Silver 7. I'm getting the 7t which are the solid state version and a lot cheaper. Those were around $20K when released 15-20 years ago, but they did make very good space heaters.

 

[kach22i]

I wish. Those are Silver 7. I'm getting the 7t which are the solid state version and a lot cheaper. Those were around $20K when released 15-20 years ago, but they did make very good space heaters.

The link said worth about $10,000 now, not sure how old or accurate that is.

It's been a cold winter, space heaters are in demand.

 

[Spike]

Spike, Lets compare apples -to- apples, all the amps you mentioned cost considerably more than the Rotel, except maybe the Aragon.

Agreed completely with your point about comparing apples-to-apples, but I thought I was being careful with directly answering Joey's question (asking Steve) by first quoting "Have you heard both the Cary and the RB1090 side by side?" where he specifically asked about comparing the Cary 805C monoblocs and the Rotel RB1090!

I myself auditioned several of your mention amps when listrning to Vantag'e / Summitt's at my Dealer and yes loved the Classe', ARC(tubed) but please don't think for a minute that anything "current" by Aragon is better than Rotel(I owned Aragon back in the day before "Klipsch" , now they are of Adcom quality).

Regarding the Aragon, here I was being careful to mention a particular 8008BB model model (circa 1998) in my post. My friend was auditioning this (pre-owned) classic unit for his CLSz and we kinda played around in my system for comparison.

Spike

 

[twich54]

Spike, Understood, Roger-wilco, 10/4 !!

 

[Robin]

A Pair of Caver Silver 7t amplifiers...

Over the years my CLS's have been through many amps to realize I need a lot more solid state watts and currents than I do when using tubes.

Carver m1.5t
solid state stereo amp
350 wpc into 8
Clip this one even at medium levels

Carver TFM-35
solid state stereo
250 wpc into 8, 400 into 4, 750 into 2
Could clip this one when pushed hard

Carver A-500x
solid state stereo
250 wpc into 8, 400 into 4, 750 into 2
current limited at 2 ohm
Didn't clip but wasn't comfortable with the meter swings

Carver A-760x
solid state stereo
380 wpc into 8, 600 into 4, 1150 into 2
current limited at 1 ohm
walk in the park, effortless


Shanling SP-80
EL34 tube mono blocks (using EH6CA7 "fat bottles")
50 wpc into 8
sweet music and still handle home theater duty.

I've got a pair of Carver Silver 7t amps coming this saturday. I'll let you know how they do.

Now as to why I like mono blocks; current capability, weight and esthetics.

Wardsweb,

Please don't keep us on tender hooks... How are you liking your pair of "Caver Silver 7t" amplifiers? Wardsweb where and how did you finally acquire them? You are soooo lucky to have two of these ultimate tubed amplifiers. As you can tell, I am a little bit envious, but in a good way...

 

[Wardsweb]

My buddy in Houston arrived saturday as planned and I hooked up the Carvers. These are some very sweet amps. While the A-760x could handle the electrostats they were working. For the Silver 7t amps, it's a walk in the park. They almost idle. Also, while I used subs with the A-760x, there is no need with the Silver 7t amps. The bass is the best I 've heard except for some Ampzilla2000 mono blocks a friend brought by once for me to try. But then those were $5000 amps. I'm very happy with my purchase and already have a buyer for the A-760x.

 

[Robin]

Carver Sliver 7t amplifiers...

My buddy in Houston arrived saturday as planned and I hooked up the Carvers. These are some very sweet amps. While the A-760x could handle the electrostats they were working. For the Silver 7t amps, it's a walk in the park. They almost idle. Also, while I used subs with the A-760x, there is no need with the Silver 7t amps. The bass is the best I 've heard except for some Ampzilla2000 mono blocks a friend brought by once for me to try. But then those were $5000 amps. I'm very happy with my purchase and already have a buyer for the A-760x.

Wardsweb,

Fantastic acquisition. "The Carver Silver 7t", is Bob Carver's version of a tube "Statement Amplifier", his ultimate tubed amplifier. Bob Carver's "What if tubed amplifier"... As you have described the "Sliver 7t", it is all that and a bag of chips...

 

[kach22i]

The Carver amps I've heard really grabbed the bass well - lots of punch and life. However the model I listened too, kind of lacked some top end delicate detail (on conventional speakers). Come to think of it, I've never heard Martin Logans with Carver amp. I have heard Carver panel speakers with Carver amps - bass was actually not the strong point - very funny.

 

[Robin]

Carver Silver 7t...

The Carver amps I've heard really grabbed the bass well - lots of punch and life. However the model I listened too, kind of lacked some top end delicate detail (on conventional speakers). Come to think of it, I've never heard Martin Logans with Carver amp. I have heard Carver panel speakers with Carver amps - bass was actually not the strong point - very funny.

kach22i,

The Caver Silver 7t's, which Wardsweb purchased are the true extreme from the wonderful mind of Bob Carver. Mr Carver's dream he fashioned into reality, the very best tubed mono block he could possibly designing and build, with Mr. Carver's abilities as an electrical engineer / inventor... The Carver Silver 7t amplifier is the antithesis of Bob Carver's tube amplifier vision. I would love to here Wardsweb's two 'Silver 7t' amplifiers hooked up to ML Statement E2x speakers... That would be like, two "What Ifs" the Statement pieces re: ML speakers with Carver's ultimate tube amplifier - together. IMHO that would be something to behold...

 

[transam]

I'm looking to get one or two parasound halo a21's.Will i get a higher class a output from two? When they run as mono they put out 750 watts or something like that.Will 1000 watts be to much for my ML ascents?