What is the truth regarding speaker wire?

[CraigBjorkman]

I have read serveral reviews regarding all the hype around speaker wire stating that as long as the guage is of adequate size you will not be able to hear the different in low vs. high quality wire. Is this true for electrostatics as well. I have the SL3's with decent components, and want to know if buying higher quality wire would make them sound better.

 

[Kenscollick]

Anyone writing a "review" that states that wires dont matter should get a job at the New York Times. If they didnt matter there would not be dozens of companys making them. now here is where it gets tricky Any wire be it a interconnect or speaker cable cannot add anything to the signal. The sonic signature of any cable is going to be subjective, you will have to decide what you like. My advice is to borrow some really good cables from some of the companys with good reputations, [ MIT Kimber Synergistic Research, Etc. ] and listen for yourself.

Remember the second rule of journalism, Paper don't care what you write on it.

 

[Bernard]

.................The sonic signature of any cable is going to be subjective, you will have to decide what you like. My advice is to borrow some really good cables from some of the companys with good reputations, [ MIT Kimber Synergistic Research, Etc. ] and listen for yourself.

......................

There is a company (can't remember the name) that allows you to try out cables from different companies. And yes, this is all very subjective, and you will definitely hear the difference through your SL3s.

 

[C.A.P]

Anyone writing a "review" that states that wires dont matter should get a job at the New York Times. If they didnt matter there would not be dozens of companys making them. now here is where it gets tricky Any wire be it a interconnect or speaker cable cannot add anything to the signal. The sonic signature of any cable is going to be subjective, you will have to decide what you like. My advice is to borrow some really good cables from some of the companys with good reputations, [ MIT Kimber Synergistic Research, Etc. ] and listen for yourself.

Remember the second rule of journalism, Paper don't care what you write on it.

X2:music::music::music::music::music:

 

[Gordon Gray]

The company is called Fatwyre aka The Cable Company. 800.328.9973.

And oh yes, speaker wire does make a difference.

And oh yes, I read the New York Times often. Great paper.

GG

 

[amey01]

Yes, it will make a difference - BUT:

* It is very subjective
* It depends largely on your components on each end of the wire and how they interact with it.

My policy is to get good wire, but don't spend too much. There is some very highly priced wire out there, and I can only think that spending that much money on other components in the system will be a far far greater upgrade.

So, my advice - get good stuff, but save your serious money for an upgrade of one/more of your components.

 

[eknuds01]

Cables can and will make an impact on your system. Sometimes the effects are rather small. At other times, you might notice huge changes. It all depends on your components and listening preferences.

You can also check out Audiogon.com for cables (both new and used).

Erik

 

[MarkNewbie]

I read a great article in (no, not the NY Times..no such thing there) one of the audiophile magazines that likened speakerwire to good rubber on a sportscar. That article caused me to start testing different wire on my system and there is a difference in good wire vs low cost spool wire from Radio Shack. Sad part is that my first few months with the MLs involved that spool wire from Radio Shack so the difference for me was tremendous. Best advice I can give is to see for yourself.

 

[amey01]

I read a great article in (no, not the NY Times..no such thing there) one of the audiophile magazines that likened speakerwire to good rubber on a sportscar. That article caused me to start testing different wire on my system and there is a difference in good wire vs low cost spool wire from Radio Shack. Sad part is that my first few months with the MLs involved that spool wire from Radio Shack so the difference for me was tremendous. Best advice I can give is to see for yourself.

The only problem is - some of these "tyres" costs as much as the sports car itself. In that case, get a new car every time!

 

[nsgarch]

Truth and Speaker Wire? Are you sure those two subjects can occur in the same sentence?

OK. First let's remind ourselves that ESL's present a very different load from other speakers. They are highly capacitive and, according to Roger Sanders (who I have come to respect) will perform poorly with certain otherwise popular cables. Here is an excerpt from a recent email discussion I had with him, my brackets are for clarification:

I want a small amount of resistance (1/4 to 1/2 ohm [per ft]) to damp the high frequency resonance due to the ESL transformer's leakage inductance resonating with the capacitance of the ESL. The 11 gauge of the [Belden coax] 8214 has excessively low resistance so fails to damp this resonance. Therefore the high frequency response of an ESL is better with the 8237.

Both the 8214 and 8237 use polyethylene insulation. The fact that the 8214 is foamed, doesn't really change anything except its flexibility. And because 8214 is a considerably larger cable, it is actually stiffer than 8237, even though the 8237 uses solid insulation.

The 8214 has slightly lower capacitance because the conductors are further apart, since the whole cable is larger. But the difference is insignificant as both cables have extremely low capacitance.

I used to use cross-connected coax. I found that it had too much inductance for use with ESLs, so I limited it to use on conventional, magnetic woofers where it worked very well. But a "pure" coax works far better for ESLs.

[Primarily] what gives different cables their different [sonic] characteristics is how they load, and therefore alter, the frequency response of the passive crossover networks in your speakers.

His ESL speaker cable is quite good actually. (You could try making your own if you can find a parts house that will sell you small quantities of Belden 8237 ) But the real issue is low cable capacitance. Under 40pF (pico farads) per foot. This requirement keeps almost all the (finely stranded) speaker cables from Cardas, Straightwire, Audioquest, Monster, etc. from qualifying due to their high capacitance, low resistance, and in some cases, excessive inductance.

So check with the manufacturer if you can't find published specs on the cable(s) you're considering. The field will narrow, and your choice will likely be more satisfying

 

[Craig]

If a speaker cable such as those made by Roger Sanders is designed to work best with electrostatic panels vs magnetic speakers then how does the Roger Sanders cable perform with a hybrid speaker such as MLs? A speaker cable used on a hybrid ML speaker is going to have to deal with both the capacitance load of an ESL panel and the opposing characteristics of a traditional magnetic woofer (unless of course you have a CLS speaker).

I suppose you would have to use the shotgun approach with the Roger Sanders wire on the panel and a magnetic type speaker cable for the woofer. But what happens when you use a single run of ESL cable with a jumper to the woofer? Does that negate the benefits of the ESL cable?

 

[nsgarch]

Craig, that's a good question. Roger does make a separate cable for woofer use if you are going to bi-amp or bi-wire. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, his amps come with two sets of binding posts to facilitate bi-wiring with the two different cables.

You might want to call him directly. He's all by himself in his factory these days, and is happy to talk to us peasants ;-) (Although he's at CES right now.) His phone, etc. is at: http://www.sanderssoundsystems.com/contact-us.htm

 

[Rich]

If a speaker cable such as those made by Roger Sanders is designed to work best with electrostatic panels vs magnetic speakers then how does the Roger Sanders cable perform with a hybrid speaker such as MLs? A speaker cable used on a hybrid ML speaker is going to have to deal with both the capacitance load of an ESL panel and the opposing characteristics of a traditional magnetic woofer (unless of course you have a CLS speaker).

I suppose you would have to use the shotgun approach with the Roger Sanders wire on the panel and a magnetic type speaker cable for the woofer. But what happens when you use a single run of ESL cable with a jumper to the woofer? Does that negate the benefits of the ESL cable?

Actually, I am not sure this is true. With the hybrid design, the woofers are not actually being driven by the amp and speaker cable. ML has some proprietary means of pulling a line level signal off of your cable and sending it to their own woofer amps. Thus, there is not a direct connection between the speaker level inputs and the woofers. What does this mean as far as impacts of the type of speaker cable (capacitance, inductance and resistance) on woofer performance? I have no idea. I wonder if one of the techs at ML can answer this one for us.

 

[risabet]

Actually, I am not sure this is true. With the hybrid design, the woofers are not actually being driven by the amp and speaker cable. ML has some proprietary means of pulling a line level signal off of your cable and sending it to their own woofer amps. Thus, there is not a direct connection between the speaker level inputs and the woofers. What does this mean as far as impacts of the type of speaker cable (capacitance, inductance and resistance) on woofer performance? I have no idea. I wonder if one of the techs at ML can answer this one for us.

Only the newer units with active woofers. The earlier/lower line MLs still have a direct connection from the amp to the woofers

 

[Craig]

Actually, I am not sure this is true. With the hybrid design, the woofers are not actually being driven by the amp and speaker cable. ML has some proprietary means of pulling a line level signal off of your cable and sending it to their own woofer amps. Thus, there is not a direct connection between the speaker level inputs and the woofers. What does this mean as far as impacts of the type of speaker cable (capacitance, inductance and resistance) on woofer performance? I have no idea. I wonder if one of the techs at ML can answer this one for us.

This only applies to the Summits and Vantages and I suppose the new Source speaker. The rest are all passive hybrids.

 

[Rich]

This only applies to the Summits and Vantages and I suppose the new Source speaker. The rest are all passive hybrids.

Good point. I have both Summits and Ascents, so you think I would have thought to make that distinction.

 

[Peter Hogan]

Only the newer units with active woofers. The earlier/lower line MLs still have a direct connection from the amp to the woofers

Hi,
The signal still goes through the crossover, so technically it is not a 'direct' connection.

This can make a bigger difference than you may realize, especially if you switch to an external 'low level' crossover before the power amps, and bypass the internal speaker crossover(s).

In my opinion, this change makes a MUCH bigger difference in sound than exists between different brands/types of speaker cables.

My .02,
Peter

 

[nsgarch]

Hi, The signal still goes through the crossover, so technically it is not a 'direct' connection. . . . . . .In my opinion, this change makes a MUCH bigger difference in sound than exists between different brands/types of speaker cables. My .02, Peter

I think actually it's the combination (cables + xover) that is responsible. Here's an excerpt from an email I got from Roger Sanders (the whole email is posted somewhere in our forums):

What gives different cables their different characteristics is how they load and therefore alter the frequency response of the passive crossover networks in your speakers.

 

[mosttoysrk]

Not endorsing these cables but they do have interesting explanations of how cables can effect signals/sound/ etc.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/index.htm

 

[risabet]

Hi,
The signal still goes through the crossover, so technically it is not a 'direct' connection.

This can make a bigger difference than you may realize, especially if you switch to an external 'low level' crossover before the power amps, and bypass the internal speaker crossover(s).

In my opinion, this change makes a MUCH bigger difference in sound than exists between different brands/types of speaker cables.

My .02,
Peter

There is no argument from me. A properly designed line level x-over beats a passive almost every time IMO. The issue is cost and complexity + the need to have at least two separate amps, four if you use monoblocks.