What is the sonic difference between the Summit and the Summit X?

[MPS]

It's not in the best possible taste - I did warn you.

Anyway, why is she brown?

Because William Shatner.:ROFL:

...where no man has gone before...

 

[slowGEEZR]

I, for one, would love to hear Steve's analogue based system.

One of these days my friend.

Gordon

You know you are welcome anytime!

 

[slowGEEZR]

My god Steve. I had one on demo for a week or two. I and a friend really didn't like it at all. Which REALLY annoyed me. I loved the looks and build quality. But his Opera Mini Droplet trashed it for sound quality. Even my old Tri-Vista SACD bettered it.

I really couldn't see how they could sell them at the price with that level of SQ. I reckon they MUST have changed it. I had one of the very first ones of the production line. It was dull, lifeless and totally uninvolving.

Very interesting. I do know that this DAC needed a lot of hours before it sounded right. Also, some of the settings didn't sound that good to me at all. However, when the right settings were found, it was very very good, to my ears. These were the speakers we listened to it on, Eggleston Savoy's...I did notice that this system lacked the super dynamics of a Wilson based system(shameless plug), but I think that is due to the very low efficiency of these speakers. All other aspects of sound were excellent and with the AMR in the system, it was easy to listen for hours.

 

[User211]

Well it maybe that a more lively DAC would produce better dynamics with the Egglestons, which I've never heard, but they do look pretty awesome. Or maybe they just need more power? Dunno.

Like all these things, though, tis all down to system matching. I've heard components sound great in one system but not in another. Sure most of us have. Also, I could never tube roll the AMR as I couldn't figure out how to get into it. It's a major trump card tube DACs have in giving you the ability to fine tune the sound - provided you can "break in", that is

 

[roberto]

Hola chicos...perhaps I was not expressing myself right. What I meant was that on these days, many changes at the DACs are coming for good. It is not the right time for me, to do a change. Regarding the M-DAC, to my ears, is providing enough info where I can get the soul of the musician(s) with easy. Right now, I have several DACs around, like the Bel Canto DAC 3, the Benchmark DAC One, the Audio Research DAC 9 (a beauty, borrow from a dear friend for the weekend), Teac UD-501-B, and one QLS QA860 DSD DAC. I will report to you my findings on Monday for sure...there is another audio freak that is coming to help me out with all these. We are taking notes and we will be doing comparisons with the same music material. We will do ABA and BAB where A=first DAC B=second DAC. I am having a very long week end! We will use strings, brass, piano, guitar, vocals, bass and percussion. I am selecting Salvatore Accardo playing Paganni the Campanella third movement. From Piano, I am using Alan Beggie Adair trio, guitar I am using Pepe Romero Aranjuez Concerto second movement. Vocals, Patricia Barber and Barbra Straisand, Brian Bronberg at bass, and Steve Davis at percussion. I also know that there are so many great musicians, but I had played these recordings very often, and I have them in my brain. Happy listening!

 

[Bernard]

Roberto, you should get Laura Fygi's XRCD, "The Latin Touch". It's superbly recorded, and sounds great.

 

[Bernard]

It's not in the best possible taste - I did warn you.

Anyway, why is she brown?

Because William Shatner.:ROFL:

Very definitely an off-colour joke ......... In bad taste. But then, you did warn me!

 

[bonzo]

Roberto, I have heard dac 8 and bel canto. To me, lampi, weiss, meitner, and dcs do things differently and are more open, depending on your preference for detail and warmth I would definitely audition those

 

[User211]

Of the solid state options Bonzo lists I'd go Meitner... to me the very best solid state digital gear I have heard in my system. It is just sooooooo expensive, though.

Best tube DACs - Lampizator and Audio Note 4.1. The Audio Note is, IMHO, a coloured beast that manages to sound fantastically spacious and rich in harmonies, but occasionally over steps the line in terms of accuracy. It is bloody enjoyable if you can live with that, though.

If you do try a Lampizator, it must be level 4 (I had a level 3 for a month or two) or above, and a tube rolling option is a MUST. I don't rate the ECC40 you will get without the option as highly as some of the other options I have tried - 6829, 6414 etc - by some margin IMHO.

 

[Bernard]

I regret selling my much-modified (by me) CAL Sigma II tube DAC. I replaced the caps with Black Gates, the diodes with fast-recovery ones, and removed some of the switching capability. It took a few months to break-in, but then sounded great.

 

[bsandovalb]

I have the mdac and it sounds pretty nice, however, my Audio Aero Capitole mkii CD player, which has a 24/192 dac with tube output makes my mdac sound thin and lacking air between instruments.... sometimes bright and a bit harsh, depending on the recording... And the AudioAero is ten years old!

From the AudioAero specs:

¨Our exclusive STARS process (Solution for Time Abstraction Re Sampling), a combination of very high speed 192 kHz RE-sampling (a new jitter free clock is created), a 24 bit re-quantization and signal enhancement technique (extraction of "hidden" information from 16 bit data, improvement of dynamic, precision, soundstage, and details), developed for Audio Aero by Swiss company Anagram Technologies SA. The core of the system is a 32-bit SHARC DSP, which, by performing hundred millions of calculations per second, rebuilds a high precision 24/192 Hz signal, independent from the input clock, and keeping total dynamic range in all stages. Then, after a 1024 times up-sampling on demand, D/A conversion is performed at 6.144 MHz by a high performance 24 bit/192 kHz DAC. Analogue output stage features sub-miniature tubes and high precision buffer with built-in high quality volume control for a perfect match between high-tech digital treatment and musicality¨

Regardless, the mdac is great within it´s price point

 

[bonzo]

Hi Justin, meitner is same price as lampi 4, but without a pre amp. The lampi 5 with duelund caps is much better than the 4, and for 500 additional you can get native dsd

 

[User211]

Hi Justin, meitner is same price as lampi 4, but without a pre amp. The lampi 5 with duelund caps is much better than the 4, and for 500 additional you can get native dsd

What Meitner did you listen to? The one I heard in my system was £10K new. The DAC2X is still pretty darn expensive too.

I'm really seriously happy with the V-Cap'd 4. Love it to bits. Can always upgrade but I'm not getting Duelands if I do.

 

[User211]

I have the mdac and it sounds pretty nice, however, my Audio Aero Capitole mkii CD player, which has a 24/192 dac with tube output makes my mdac sound thin and lacking air between instruments.... sometimes bright and a bit harsh, depending on the recording... And the AudioAero is ten years old!

From the AudioAero specs:

¨Our exclusive STARS process (Solution for Time Abstraction Re Sampling), a combination of very high speed 192 kHz RE-sampling (a new jitter free clock is created), a 24 bit re-quantization and signal enhancement technique (extraction of "hidden" information from 16 bit data, improvement of dynamic, precision, soundstage, and details), developed for Audio Aero by Swiss company Anagram Technologies SA. The core of the system is a 32-bit SHARC DSP, which, by performing hundred millions of calculations per second, rebuilds a high precision 24/192 Hz signal, independent from the input clock, and keeping total dynamic range in all stages. Then, after a 1024 times up-sampling on demand, D/A conversion is performed at 6.144 MHz by a high performance 24 bit/192 kHz DAC. Analogue output stage features sub-miniature tubes and high precision buffer with built-in high quality volume control for a perfect match between high-tech digital treatment and musicality¨

Regardless, the mdac is great within it´s price point

Yup - the Capitole MKII was very good. I always wanted one TBH

 

[User211]

Sorry Joey thread has lost the plot!:devil:

 

[roberto]

Hola...our very first impressions. We used these types: Harmonic Tech Truth Link III, Transparent Music Link Super, Nordost Blue Heaven, Nordost Red Dawn, DHLabs BL-1 MKII. Digital cables DHLabs, Transparent and Kimber silver wire with Rhodium RCAs. Every test on each DAC, showed a difference in cables. Because sound in any system is a matter of taste and liking, as the food in a good restaurant, I can not tell which is better...all I can say that the stage and the sound presentation was different. I can conclude that I can live with any of these dacs. But my liking did favor the Bel Canto. I can not play frequency samples above 96KHz om this dac, as I could in the others, but the overall sound tonality and the detail, it was my favorite. My friend did like the ARC 9, which I did find it too, with a warmth and a very classy, expensive and very proper with the size of the musical instruments and voices. My M-DAC was not in this sound league, but very close!. The Teac is a very nice contender to the M-DAC. We liked it over the Benchmark. We did not use the QLS. It is a brand new unit, and it is unfair because it is not broken in as the others. The conclusion is: all of them will provide a great sound to your system...all of them have good stage and you can listen the heart of the musician(s) easy. Vocals were very impressive with the Bel Canto and the ARC. The guitar strings, only with the TEAC I could listened clearly the brand of the strings. Savarez brand srings (french made) has a distinguish tonality and brilliantness that makes it unique. At the recording of Pepe Romero, you can tell this. K2HD #UM K2HD 022 Flamenco, this is a breath taking recording, where the sound of a "tablao-flamenco veneu", the sound of the castanets, and the clapping hands are out of this world!. The cymbals at the Quality of Silence by Steve Davis, did not made me to get the goose bumps with my M-DAC as it did with the Bel Canto. The strings with the ARC 9, with Salvatore Accardo were very life like. I am going to spend more time with the Bel Canto, which I own. I was only listening my M-DAC, because of the possibility to choose different digital filters, but I was missing something here...the richness of the strings, the body of the piano overall, the sense of being there, listening at the event, with a very steady stage, my notes tells me that I should be with the Bel Canto, even that is it not an updated as the M-DAC is...so I am a little disappointed with my M-DAC. Again, if I only have one of these units, I could live with their sound quality. All of them are capable to show the good things at the recording and of course the bad things...like the unnatural sound of the bass notes on some recordings. The detail of the hammer hitting the strings at the Valentina Lisitsa live at the Royal Albert Hall, playing a Böserdorfer big piano, and Misuko Uchida playing the piano concerto No. 20 of Mozart, second movement, and Sir Paul McCartney singing old songs in a live recording with musicians like Diana Krall, John Clayton, Anthony Wilson, John Pizarelly, Mike Mainiery, Alan Broadbent, Joe Walsh, and many others, made last night a great evening with superb music, good red wine, a good friend who has tons of patience with me, and different taste for sound and music. Right now, I am listening the Bel Canto, and it is a good unit, my reports show that I should be with it, some time, just to listen what happens...enjoy your Sunday, my friend! Happy listening!

 

[bonzo]

The Meitner I heard was the one just below 5k - think it's the MA-1. The Lampi 5 is also better coz of the power supply. And I liked th EC82 valves on both better than the EC40

 

[roberto]

Yes Bonzo, I agreed with you. The Lampi is a killer DAC. The tubes are warmer. Also, at the lower mid range is where it shines, the upper octaves are mellow and silky...some of us like tubes, others do not. Happy listening!

 

[User211]

The Meitner I heard was the one just below 5k - think it's the MA-1. The Lampi 5 is also better coz of the power supply. And I liked th EC82 valves on both better than the EC40

The Lampi 5 you had on dem had ECC182 valves in it. I know because a friend had the same DAC on demo. He liked it but prefers his AN DAC4.1. It had the same DAC board in it as a Level 4. But I think Lucasz is now using a different DAC chip in the level 5. It is hard to keep up with what he is up to - always changing things - a dedicated tweaker, I think.

According to Lucasz the difference between 4 and 5 isn't that great sonically. But it does allow for power supply separation and more space for bigger caps etc. It will be better, I have no doubt, but for 2000 Euros more? I think the level 4 is the sweet spot.

I'd like to listen to a level 7 in my system, but I know I wouldn't pay the asking price

 

[roberto]

Hola Justin... and that´s my point. I rather stay of what I have in my hands right now, than spend a lot of newer DACs because a lot are going to come better... bigger chips with better software! Just wait! Happy listening!