What a mess !!!

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twich54

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be sure you are sitting down when you watch this.......my Grandmother was right....this Country is going to hell in a handbasket !!

http://dailybail.com/home/there-are-no-words-to-describe-the-following-part-ii.html

What cracks me up is our admistration and the rest of the losers we've elected were so worried about health care they forgot (it appears ) the real problem........run - a - muck debt with no 'real' job creation to erase it !
 
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Rich

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What cracks me up is our admistration and the rest of the losers we've elected was so worried about health care they forgot (it appears ) the real problem........run - a - muck debt with no 'real' job creation to erase it !

Why is it that the debt is such a huge problem right now, when we are about to figure out budget priorities for next year, but it wasn't a problem late last year when the republicans wanted to extend the Bush tax cuts? I mean, you didn't hear one of them mention the debt during that debate. Not one! No insight offered into how extending the tax cuts might affect the debt and the budget deficit. But now, that is all they can talk about. How awful the debt is and how it is going to ruin this country if we don't quit spending money on things like NPR and Planned Parenthood. It's all just a political shell game. If they cared about the debt one iota, they would have compromised and tried to raise taxes as well as trim spending.

Unfortunately, health care is still a problem and is going to continue to be a worse problem, because they didn't accomplish anything with it when they had the chance. They should have coupled basic universal health care with insurance reform and real tort reform, and then they might have really accomplished something that everyone could be happy about.

Truth is, jobs will come. The problem over the next few years isn't going to be lack of jobs so much as run-amuck inflation, with all the excess money in the system from years and years of incredibly low interest rates. Combine that with the spike in oil prices from decreasing supply and mideast volatility and you have a big problem for our economy over the next decade.
 

mcmd

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Why is it that the debt is such a huge problem right now, when we are about to figure out budget priorities for next year, but it wasn't a problem late last year when the republicans wanted to extend the Bush tax cuts? I mean, you didn't hear one of them mention the debt during that debate. Not one!

Quite true Rich, but peek behind the curtain. The way we are trained to perceive our political system is what's keeping us from actually fixing the problems we face. Debt is not a (D) or (R) problem, it's a math problem. When we sling shots at either (D)'s or (R)'s, we assist those that want to keep us fighting amongst ourselves, while the hidden and heinous tax of inflation destroys us from within.

Even the way our media to us is presented by design: if you happen to see the world through a progressive liberal lens, there's a "news" station for you: MSNBC. If you see the world through a conservative lens, there's a "news" station for you: FOX. Each night, both spew out red meat propaganda for their followers and each night, the PERCEIVED differences between us grow. Again, this is no accident: it is be design.

Divide and conquer: a very old play from a very old playbook.

Because our form of government is a representative republic and not a democracy, it requires an engaged and active citizenry. It may not be perfect, but it's the best there is. When some talking heads on TV say the U.S. Constitution is a living, breathing document, they are actually correct as contained within it is the means and manner for which it can be lawfully changed.

For example, if we want to make health care a RIGHT, just amend the Constitution to include it. Want to delete a few rights, again, no problem- just follow the amendment process. What we are living in now best described as a state of corporate statism, where gains are privatized and losses are socialized. It's not a (D) or (R) thing- both "parties" do not have the country's best interests at heart. They merely play their part in perpetuating the ponzi.

As for the debt, it likely won't matter. The USD is in a structural decline and will lose its world reserve currency status within our lifetime to the IMF and BIS Special Drawing Right (SDR). As a global currency comes into view, a global governance structure will be required to administrate it. When this happens, a form of forced austerity will exist as goods and services will be adjusted up in price rather dramatically. The divide between rich and poor will be sharply adjusted. This party has barely begun for U.S. citizens, but you can see the early effects abroad: Tunisia, Eqypt, Bahrain, Libya.

It is a mistake to believe that the highly improbable is impossible.
 

twich54

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who placed that Inspector General of the Federal Reserve into her position ?
 
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Kevin

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The Democrats controlled both houses of congress and the presidency, but decided to put off voting on the Bush tax cuts until after the election and somehow this is the Republicans fault? If I earn $100,000 this year but spend $140,000. Is my $40,000 of debt the result of my failure to earn more or is it the result of my spending habits?
 

Len44

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The Democrats controlled both houses of congress and the presidency, but decided to put off voting on the Bush tax cuts until after the election and somehow this is the Republicans fault? If I earn $100,000 this year but spend $140,000. Is my $40,000 of debt the result of my failure to earn more or is it the result of my spending habits?

Uh, 'Scuse me. Who was Prez when the, um, "Bush Tax Cuts" were originally passed? Who was Prez when it was decided to **** away $$$$$$$$$$$$ in unneeded tax cuts for the super-rich?

And, which party has been screeching -- and I DO mean screeching -- that we MUST carry on the tax cuts for the super-rich, else we will experience high unemployment????? Well, Geez, if all it took to fix the unemployment was to give and maintain huge tax cats for the wealthiest one-tenth of one percent of Americans, why, pray tell, didn't that keep us from getting to where we now are on this issue?

Why is it that McConnell and his minions have one way of looking at things when Bush is the Prez, but quite another when a Democrat holds the office?

Kentuckians must be so very embarrassed!!!
 
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Kevin

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I'm certainly not making enough to have had my taxes increased. In fact, I could use some of that super-rich money added to my own paycheck. So again, why didn't the dems have their vote before the elections when they had the power to change things?
 

Len44

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I'm certainly not making enough to have had my taxes increased. In fact, I could use some of that super-rich money added to my own paycheck. So again, why didn't the dems have their vote before the elections when they had the power to change things?

Because the REPUBLICANS demanded that it be that way! Remember, Mitchy and his crew actually controlled the Senate because somehow the simple majority it USED to take to get things done, was changed so that it actually took 60 Votes (out of 100) to get anything approved. And somehow there were not enough votes to secure approval.

Go Figure.:( Highly frustrating. Must be the "New Math."

And, I could also certainly use some of that SR money as well. And so could the United States.
 

Kevin

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Well Len, you can rail against the republicans, I like to curse at them as well sometimes. But do you honestly think the dems have done much better? After all, in that liberal bastion of a state in which you reside, aren't they looking at raising taxes on drinks, gas and cigarettes to cover a huge budget deficit? Lord help you if you're a 2 pack a day alcholic with a hummer to drive! Embarassed for Kentuckians? At least they will still be paying the same amount for a good glass of bourbon at the local bar, because they have a budget surplus. Also, I think MD is going to raise the tax on millionaires an additional 6%. The last time MD did that they actually lost tax revenues because 1 of every 3 millionaires left the state. O' well, whats a liberal to do.
 

Jimna

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Neither party is concerned about the common citizen anymore. The US senate is full of millionaires who gave themselves a tax cut, all of them not just one party. They are all serving the corporation and themselves, and thats all. All the coporation cares about is profit, profits that will move to the next world power when this one dies. No national loyalty there.

I personally am preparing myself and my family for the crash, the big crash. Take heed....buy some non-Monsanto seeds and and fertilize your yards for crops, not grass. If you have a well be ready to pump water manually from it.

This the great equalizer will level the field, and our current course guaranties it happening. I know some think I have a tinfoil hat as I type this now, but when I sell you 1 of my seeds for $10,000(if not more) you will stand corrected.

I highly recommend the movie 'Collapse' to all here.
 

97ChameleonTA

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‘The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money’ - Margaret Thatcher

Taxing the people, rich or poor to supplement a government that has become bloated with overspending and an agency or committee for every conceivable concern is the problem. This is not a democrat or republican problem, it is a liberal versus conservative issue. The government subsidized social programs that have existed for the last 50 years have yielded zero results and have compounded our national debt. The problem began when our social security system was added to the general budget so politicians could spend it on anything and everything outside of providing the coverage promised to those who paid into it. Add to that the expansion of social security to cover any and all parties that never paid into it in the first place because they suffer from alcoholism, drug addiction, or whatever and you can see the downward spiral.
 
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Len44

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Well Len, you can rail against the republicans, I like to curse at them as well sometimes. But do you honestly think the dems have done much better? After all, in that liberal bastion of a state in which you reside, aren't they looking at raising taxes on drinks, gas and cigarettes to cover a huge budget deficit? Lord help you if you're a 2 pack a day alcholic with a hummer to drive! Embarassed for Kentuckians? At least they will still be paying the same amount for a good glass of bourbon at the local bar, because they have a budget surplus. Also, I think MD is going to raise the tax on millionaires an additional 6%. The last time MD did that they actually lost tax revenues because 1 of every 3 millionaires left the state. O' well, whats a liberal to do.

Now, now -- I didn't go pickin' on 'ol Virginny, even though it is probably at least as much of a -- dare I say "Conservative"? state as Maryland is a "liberal bastion."

And, I really didn't think I was railing against republicans, and, no, I don't even particularly think the Dems have done especially well. Wasted a year on health care (gotta admit, tho, the republicans dragged things out as much as possible).

But while I think of it, I think I will rail for just a mo. I mean, a leader of republicans who states (quite proudly, even!), to President Obama "I hope you fail!" Or that dip-s**t republican fella who had the gall to shout during the President of the United States delivering the State of the Union "YOU LIE!!!" No apology, either from the offending idiot or the leadership of the republican party.

In short, one party has clearly demonstrated on a continuing basis utter contempt for the Citizens of this Country, and support for Wall Street Bankers and the super-rich. No way are they the least bit interested in rolling up their sleeves and working together on the many problems facing us. I do not understand why this is, but I can tell you this all seemed to start when Bill Clinton became President and "usurped" Daddy Bush. Things got ugly in a hurry. Then, later, we got the Village Idiot inflicted on us, and we will be a very long time recovering from THAT disaster, if we are even able to do so.
 

as350_b3

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Reading the individual replies in this thread is proof that most people try to make this a D vs. R problem. However, it really is completely misguided to think this mindset of "us versus them" is going to solve anything. Cant you see that if you look at the big picture, both D and R political parties are equally incapable of fixing the problem? The two official parties have become identical and should be held equally responsible for the fiscal failure of the nation.

I agree 100% with MCMD. The debt and runaway budget are not a political problem, they are a math problem. We've been kicking the proverbial can down the road for far to too long. I wouldn't be surprised if we will live through a social uprising here in the U.S.A. within our lifetime.
 

timm

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Reading the individual replies in this thread is proof that most people try to make this a D vs. R problem. However, it really is completely misguided to think this mindset of "us versus them" is going to solve anything. Cant you see that if you look at the big picture, both D and R political parties are equally incapable of fixing the problem? The two official parties have become identical and should be held equally responsible for the fiscal failure of the nation.

I agree 100% with MCMD. The debt and runaway budget are not a political problem, they are a math problem. We've been kicking the proverbial can down the road for far to too long. I wouldn't be surprised if we will live through a social uprising here in the U.S.A. within our lifetime.

Well - since things are slow here at work..... I don't think it is whether they are capable - I think it is whether they really WANT to.... Sometimes I get the feeling that it is just all about a bunch of churn to create confusion among the people that elected them....Finger pointing, lieing...Lets have the middle class argue about how we should only give tax hikes to the rich...Lets have the rich talk about tax hikes across the masses... Lets have the white collar worker complain that the blue collar worker is getting too much....Lets have the blue collar worker talk about how the white collar worker should take a pay cut..... See how this works folks? They win don't they? In the first example -- taxes are raised and the government has more money to misappropriate... in the second example, companies get to cut people's pay and benefits because each 'class' is arguing against the other - but it's 'ok' as long as the other class is getting hit to...It's 'fair' then....

Why isn't the arguement being made that everyone should pay less tax and YOU should spend it more wisely? I think it is safe to say that everyone here would probably like to make more...so if you did happen to become more successful...I guess you should be rewarded by HIGHER taxes??? The risks taken should be rewarded by HIGHER taxes?? I look at taxes this way - They pay for services that as a US citizen, I pay for. Why should anyone's wage factor into the cost of that individual's cost for the services rendered? Right now, I am paying for bombs, welfare,social security for others, money to support other governments...the list goes on and on... Maybe I pay more for that bomb than you do...Guess it just depends on how much I make? I would rather give it to the family down the street that might need some help. But nothing is perfect I guess - and it is a difficult nut to crack. I don't always get a say in where my money is going... They started the federal income tax...what? around wwII was that it? I find it ironic that the reason people fled Justin's country was because of taxes and about 170 years after that - we started a new taxation system which has been growing ever since.

The middle class is dwindling here. It is the glue that keeps us from hating on one another too much... When it disappears, the hate increases and you have scenarios like you see in the Middle East. Everyone wants Martin Logans - and not everyone can afford them.... See it all comes back to ML doesn't it? :)
 
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twich54

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How true Timm....how true ! ...good post.
 

tsv_1

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Well - since things are slow here at work..... I don't think it is whether they are capable - I think it is whether they really WANT to.... Sometimes I get the feeling that it is just all about a bunch of churn to create confusion among the people that elected them....Finger pointing, lieing...Lets have the middle class argue about how we should only give tax hikes to the rich...Lets have the rich talk about tax hikes across the masses... Lets have the white collar worker complain that the blue collar worker is getting too much....Lets have the blue collar worker talk about how the white collar worker should take a pay cut..... See how this works folks? They win don't they? In the first example -- taxes are raised and the government has more money to misappropriate... in the second example, companies get to cut people's pay and benefits because each 'class' is arguing against the other - but it's 'ok' as long as the other class is getting hit to...It's 'fair' then....

Why isn't the arguement being made that everyone should pay less tax and YOU should spend it more wisely? I think it is safe to say that everyone here would probably like to make more...so if you did happen to become more successful...I guess you should be rewarded by HIGHER taxes??? The risks taken should be rewarded by HIGHER taxes?? I look at taxes this way - They pay for services that as a US citizen, I pay for. Why should anyone's wage factor into the cost of that individual's cost for the services rendered? Right now, I am paying for bombs, welfare,social security for others, money to support other governments...the list goes on and on... Maybe I pay more for that bomb than you do...Guess it just depends on how much I make? I would rather give it to the family down the street that might need some help. But nothing is perfect I guess - and it is a difficult nut to crack. I don't always get a say in where my money is going... They started the federal income tax...what? around wwII was that it? I find it ironic that the reason people fled Justin's country was because of taxes and about 170 years after that - we started a new taxation system which has been growing ever since.

The middle class is dwindling here. It is the glue that keeps us from hating on one another too much... When it disappears, the hate increases and you have scenarios like you see in the Middle East. Everyone wants Martin Logans - and not everyone can afford them.... See it all comes back to ML doesn't it? :)

I promised myself I would steer clear of this thread... so much for promises.

I have zero pride/faith in our government. They are bloated, incapable, attention whores who want nothing more than to remain in power as long as possible. That is essentially the definition of a politician.

With that out of the way, short of a massive civil uprising (as someone eluded to earlier), the 2-party system is going to be with us for a while.... complete with all the rhetoric and special interests.

So what to do? A friend of mine has a saying "let's not start by boiling the ocean". We should identify a prioritized list of "things most broken" in this country and focus on those, serially if needed (in parallel if at all possible).

Number one (IMO)... gut the IRS and adopt something like the Fairtax. Create a climate where businesses will thrive here in the US, jobs will ramp, and people can take home every last cent that's printed in the "gross income" field on their pay stubs.

Number two... 100% independence from foreign energy sources.

Number three... stop this imperialistic freight-train and demilitarize the dozens (maybe hundreds) of bases we maintain around the world.

and for good measure, I'll throw one more on the table: Outlaw Lobbying, period. This one measure would clean up half the filth in DC... of course there will always be corruption and back-room deals, but taking out the lobbyists would be a big step in the right direction.

Do all of these things have massive implications? Sure they do. Are any of them perfect? Not by a long shot. Are we doing just fine on our present course with no foreseeable change in the lunacy in Washington? Uuuuhm, no. We need change on a massive scale and we need to roll with the punches that come along with that change.

While I have additional thoughts wrt to the incredibly adolescent behavior of many/most of the players in DC, I'll save that for another post.

Cheers

(also, thanks Rush, Fox, Hannity, etc etc for stirring up all the shit, selling your lies, and pitting America against America... Nice job on that :rolleyes:)
 

Kevin

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Now, now -- I didn't go pickin' on 'ol Virginny, even though it is probably at least as much of a -- dare I say "Conservative"? state as Maryland is a "liberal bastion."

Ok, I'll help you pick on ol' Virginny then. It once was a strongly conservative state, I would say now that it 'leans' slightly conservative. Due to the massive population growth in Northern Virginia, caused by the massive bloating of the federal government over the past couple of decades, Virginia has swung fairly quickly towards the left. Very few people living in NOVA can say they are actually from VA. Most of the population in NOVA either works directly for or has indirect ties to the federal government. Hence why the economy in Virginia has largely been shielded from the economic downturn. The feds aren't 'feeling your pain'. I will say this though, at least it does help towards a traffic problem that VA has had for sometime. Between sick days, vacation days, holiday, family leave, weather closings and early retirement. At least on any given work day, almost half of them aren't working!
 

97ChameleonTA

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I promised myself I would steer clear of this thread... so much for promises.

I have zero pride/faith in our government. They are bloated, incapable, attention whores who want nothing more than to remain in power as long as possible. That is essentially the definition of a politician.

With that out of the way, short of a massive civil uprising (as someone eluded to earlier), the 2-party system is going to be with us for a while.... complete with all the rhetoric and special interests.

So what to do? A friend of mine has a saying "let's not start by boiling the ocean". We should identify a prioritized list of "things most broken" in this country and focus on those, serially if needed (in parallel if at all possible).

Number one (IMO)... gut the IRS and adopt something like the Fairtax. Create a climate where businesses will thrive here in the US, jobs will ramp, and people can take home every last cent that's printed in the "gross income" field on their pay stubs.

Number two... 100% independence from foreign energy sources.

Number three... stop this imperialistic freight-train and demilitarize the dozens (maybe hundreds) of bases we maintain around the world.

and for good measure, I'll throw one more on the table: Outlaw Lobbying, period. This one measure would clean up half the filth in DC... of course there will always be corruption and back-room deals, but taking out the lobbyists would be a big step in the right direction.

Do all of these things have massive implications? Sure they do. Are any of them perfect? Not by a long shot. Are we doing just fine on our present course with no foreseeable change in the lunacy in Washington? Uuuuhm, no. We need change on a massive scale and we need to roll with the punches that come along with that change.

While I have additional thoughts wrt to the incredibly adolescent behavior of many/most of the players in DC, I'll save that for another post.

Cheers

(also, thanks Rush, Fox, Hannity, etc etc for stirring up all the shit, selling your lies, and pitting America against America... Nice job on that :rolleyes:)


Spot on! [In my best Bud Lite voice] .....I luv you, man......
 

Len44

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Ok, I'll help you pick on ol' Virginny then. It once was a strongly conservative state, I would say now that it 'leans' slightly conservative. Due to the massive population growth in Northern Virginia, caused by the massive bloating of the federal government over the past couple of decades, Virginia has swung fairly quickly towards the left. Very few people living in NOVA can say they are actually from VA. Most of the population in NOVA either works directly for or has indirect ties to the federal government. Hence why the economy in Virginia has largely been shielded from the economic downturn. The feds aren't 'feeling your pain'.

Well, I'd agree with all the above (quite good analysis, actually) except for that last sentence, which is absolutely NOT true. President Obama just slammed all federal workers with a two-year pay freeze...something which Rush Limbaugh / Fox News may have "neglected" to cover well. That sure seems like "pain" to me.

I will say this though, at least it does help towards a traffic problem that VA has had for sometime. Between sick days, vacation days, holiday, family leave, weather closings and early retirement.

Now this is just nonsense. Non-federal workers -- heck, even the military -- have all of these things available as well. At least, AFAIK. Doesn't your company offer sick days? Paid Vacation? Holidays? I must say that you seem to have a very strong anti-federal worker, anti-federal government prejudice, which is certainlyu understandable given the venom-spewing (and lying) Hannity/Fox/Coulter/Limbaugh crowd, which, while I'm sure pays them extremely well, only serves to divide the Country. Sure would be nice if once in a while they could find their way to give credit where credit is due, instead of just screeching hatred at one party and praising the other. Sorta shrinks their credibility, don't it?

At least on any given work day, almost half of them aren't working!

Now, just where did you get THAT statistic? Could it be that you, uh, heard this from.......one of the above-referenced sources? I ask because, well, we all know how accurate THEY are...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Len44

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I promised myself I would steer clear of this thread... so much for promises.

I have zero pride/faith in our government. They are bloated, incapable, attention whores who want nothing more than to remain in power as long as possible. That is essentially the definition of a politician.

With that out of the way, short of a massive civil uprising (as someone eluded to earlier), the 2-party system is going to be with us for a while.... complete with all the rhetoric and special interests.

So what to do? A friend of mine has a saying "let's not start by boiling the ocean". We should identify a prioritized list of "things most broken" in this country and focus on those, serially if needed (in parallel if at all possible).

Number one (IMO)... gut the IRS and adopt something like the Fairtax. Create a climate where businesses will thrive here in the US, jobs will ramp, and people can take home every last cent that's printed in the "gross income" field on their pay stubs.

Number two... 100% independence from foreign energy sources.

Number three... stop this imperialistic freight-train and demilitarize the dozens (maybe hundreds) of bases we maintain around the world.

and for good measure, I'll throw one more on the table: Outlaw Lobbying, period. This one measure would clean up half the filth in DC... of course there will always be corruption and back-room deals, but taking out the lobbyists would be a big step in the right direction.

Do all of these things have massive implications? Sure they do. Are any of them perfect? Not by a long shot. Are we doing just fine on our present course with no foreseeable change in the lunacy in Washington? Uuuuhm, no. We need change on a massive scale and we need to roll with the punches that come along with that change.

While I have additional thoughts wrt to the incredibly adolescent behavior of many/most of the players in DC, I'll save that for another post.

Cheers

(also, thanks Rush, Fox, Hannity, etc etc for stirring up all the shit, selling your lies, and pitting America against America... Nice job on that :rolleyes:)

Great Post, Todd!

I'd add: fix the system to that it becomes WAY too painful to outsource jobs to foreign countries. And, while we're at it, fix the tax system that allows some entities to pay inappropriate low (or zero) taxes, and eliminate tax credits paid to foreign governments. The "FairTax" may take care of all this, but I am going to have to fine some time to read the referenced items.

Question -- a serious one: When you talk of the need to "Create a climate where businesses will thrive here in the US, jobs will ramp..." what are the top two or three specific things we need to do to begin to turn things around?
Surely, there must be a better approach than what we've been doing...
 
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