Tube monoblock recommendations

[Big Dog RJ]

A power amp isn't that complicated a circuit, especially a tube one. You can get generic schematics from David Manley's book, I think it's called "The Vacuum Tube Logic Book" or something to that effect, if you can find a copy. If you wanted a soft start you could probably use the kit that Tubes4HiFi sells.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with the triode/pentode switch. When I tried the one on the M125's, ultralinear sounded way better than triode, and had more power to boot. I never thought about it again.

Very true!
Although this is more or less alongside personal preference... UL operation has the edge over triodes, especially when it comes to greater control. UL op has more of everything that triodes offer.

I think that triode option was initiated during the SET era, such that SET always sounded sweeter, and there was more of that mid-band bloom. So quite a number of tube gear were offering triodes as an option. However, in most cases, once UL configs were more enhanced in circuitry and design, nearly every owner preferred UL op. There are those who are totally committed to SET Class A but for that kind of amplification the speakers must be highly efficient with high sensitivity ratings. Definitely not suited for stats. It may play tunes but not optimally.

Cheers, RJ

 

[Lightloopy]

Very true!
Although this is more or less alongside personal preference... UL operation has the edge over triodes, especially when it comes to greater control. UL op has more of everything that triodes offer.

I think that triode option was initiated during the SET era, such that SET always sounded sweeter, and there was more of that mid-band bloom. So quite a number of tube gear were offering triodes as an option. However, in most cases, once UL configs were more enhanced in circuitry and design, nearly every owner preferred UL op. There are those who are totally committed to SET Class A but for that kind of amplification the speakers must be highly efficient with high sensitivity ratings. Definitely not suited for stats. It may play tunes but not optimally.

Cheers, RJ

Interesting, I listen to the VTL MB450's in triode most of the time with that lucious, organic midrange but when nobody's home watch out. Flip to tetrode, put on Charlie or Chilliwack and let them rock.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Interesting, I listen to the VTL MB450's in triode most of the time with that lucious, organic midrange but when nobody's home watch out. Flip to tetrode, put on Charlie or Chilliwack and let them rock.

That's about right!

In Triode mode it's a glorious midrange, without a doubt! That's their signature attribute. Also listenable for endless hours... especially late night sessions. Then switch over to SET, and it gets even more seductive, draws you into the music. So again, a very highly personal preference to the music lover / audiophile.

The VTL MB450's have plenty of power on demand. They'll drive any load, no issues there whatsoever. The best thing about these high-powered tube amps is that even in Triode mode, it can still sound full of presence and detail, simply because there are a large bank of tubes. Then switch over to UL op, and look out charlie! The full presence factor, dynamic slam, drive and control takes on another dimension, it just shifts gears. That's a marvel to have this option based in one amplifier design. Many don't do this any longer because it's too costly, and only a handful offer fantastic UL or Triode Output operation. That's why I always say hold onto these precious tooob amps! They're certainly one of a kind.

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tooons!
Woof! RJ

 

[Robert D]

That's about right!

In Triode mode it's a glorious midrange, without a doubt! That's their signature attribute. Also listenable for endless hours... especially late night sessions. Then switch over to SET, and it gets even more seductive, draws you into the music. So again, a very highly personal preference to the music lover / audiophile.

The VTL MB450's have plenty of power on demand. They'll drive any load, no issues there whatsoever. The best thing about these high-powered tube amps is that even in Triode mode, it can still sound full of presence and detail, simply because there are a large bank of tubes. Then switch over to UL op, and look out charlie! The full presence factor, dynamic slam, drive and control takes on another dimension, it just shifts gears. That's a marvel to have this option based in one amplifier design. Many don't do this any longer because it's too costly, and only a handful offer fantastic UL or Triode Output operation. That's why I always say hold onto these precious tooob amps! They're certainly one of a kind.

Cheers, and enjoy those finest tooons!
Woof! RJ

Youre making me want one! I bet you were a very good salesman.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Youre making me want one! I bet you were a very good salesman.

Ah! True.

In fact, I was to a certain extent. Many years ago in a galaxy far away... When I finished up my under-grad in Chicago (May of 98), I remember very clearly my Sales & Marketing research lecturer said one thing that was solid advice, "if you're planning on selling anything, just make sure that you would want to buy the item yourself!" The rest is very little effort if you sincerely believe in the item, it will sell. Quite simple really, if you don't believe in the item and it's pretty much a load of bollocks then it won't sell, and don't waste your time trying to sell it!

It's a funny ride indeed, from that year onwards after graduating, I worked in so many corporates as Sales & Marketing manager, some were great tenures and some were not so great. That statement he made is so damn true, and to come to think of it now, even with all the high-tech stuff, all the bells & whistles + gizmos, the bottom line is, if it really works it will sell! The rest is all fancy, take that to AI, it can't even figure out day between night!

Cheers matey, and enjoy those finest tooons
Woof! RJ

 

[Robert D]

Ah! True.

In fact, I was to a certain extent. Many years ago in a galaxy far away... When I finished up my under-grad in Chicago (May of 98), I remember very clearly my Sales & Marketing research lecturer said one thing that was solid advice, "if you're planning on selling anything, just make sure that you would want to buy the item yourself!" The rest is very little effort if you sincerely believe in the item, it will sell. Quite simple really, if you don't believe in the item and it's pretty much a load of bollocks then it won't sell, and don't waste your time trying to sell it!

It's a funny ride indeed, from that year onwards after graduating, I worked in so many corporates as Sales & Marketing manager, some were great tenures and some were not so great. That statement he made is so damn true, and to come to think of it now, even with all the high-tech stuff, all the bells & whistles + gizmos, the bottom line is, if it really works it will sell! The rest is all fancy, take that to AI, it can't even figure out day between night!

Cheers matey, and enjoy those finest tooons
Woof! RJ

Yes. That professor was right about if you believe in the product and would buy it for your own, it will sell. I sold cars for a short while and can totally understand that. We are buying a new Mazda car today, and the salesman is new there. He had been selling Subaru for many years successfully and said he left because he no longer believed that the cars were great.
I guess if you're a great actor you might pull it off, but I know I couldn't do that.
You're a young guy still. I graduated from college in 92!

 

[Steelhead]

Tubes Rule as our best ever tube girlfriend EveAnna Manley told me. Great outfit and you will hear from her personally when corresponding with the company

Yes listened to 9 watt SET monoblocks at a friends house with highly modified Altec VOT's and basshorns. Absolutely incredible.

Gotta have the juice though for Stats.

Having the ability to select high power push-pull or triode is a great feature. Even though I never switch them out of triode. Nice to know I can.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Tubes Rule as our best ever tube girlfriend EveAnna Manley told me. Great outfit and you will hear from her personally when corresponding with the company

Yes listened to 9 watt SET monoblocks at a friends house with highly modified Altec VOT's and basshorns. Absolutely incredible.

Gotta have the juice though for Stats.

Having the ability to select high power push-pull or triode is a great feature. Even though I never switch them out of triode. Nice to know I can.

Stop the train!
Eve Anna Manley! The best of customer service! It doesn't get any better than her genuine correspondence directly with the customer. I'm not sure how she does it and how she manages the time... but her service and tech support is Outstanding! With a capital "O".

I owned their gear quite a while back... between 98 to about 2001/2. First started out with a vintage pair of VTL/ Manley REF350's. These were referred to as the Designer's Ref series, with David Manley's signature on the front panel. They were absolute power houses! From there onto the Neo 250's then the Neo 500's. This was just after VTL and Manley Labs split up and went their separate ways. Even during that time, I needed all sorts of parts, tubes, resistors, ceramic tube sockets, fuses, schematics, even trannies! Her service and tech support was first class! Even back then, I was still using conrad johnson gear, and their service was just as good. However, Eve Anne had that extra edge where she'd go the extra mile to get your gear upto spec. She believed in it!

Luke Manley also stands by his gear, and the newer VTL amplifiers are truly tops! So overall, any of these top tier makes, VTL, Manley Labs, CJ and ARC are real VFM. You can't go wrong with any of their gear. Legendary sound quality with Legendary people to back it up, and they do it with a passion!

Cheers to the all time tube classics! And I agree, tooobs rule!
Woofty woof'n! RJ

 

[Leporello]

There are those who are totally committed to SET Class A but for that kind of amplification the speakers must be highly efficient with high sensitivity ratings. Definitely not suited for stats.

Except possibly, original Quads.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Except possibly, original Quads.

Original Quad ESL's... as in the ESL 57 or 63?
I had both but they were quite finicky. Under powered amps, in terms of low current & inadequate stable voltages, wouldn't do it. Then again, the bigger amplifiers would over-drive it, causing them to arc! Not a pretty sight, and would cause holes in the mylar diaphragms. The more these ESL's arced the closer they got to compete panel failure.

Then came the newer versions (made in China) absolute useless. 988, 989, 2805, 2905, and 2912. The outer design was quite good! Much better bracing, more solid structure, more weight (around 42kg, added stability) but that was about it. The internals were really poorly done. That move to China was Quads disaster! Anyway, that's a whiole different topic. I owned all those series of Quad ESL's. Although the ESL 63's had better panel protection from arcing, similar to the later versions, it had so many other flaws.

ML stats are way above the Quad ESL's in every design aspect, and thank goodness they're made in Canada! After having spent over 20grand on my last pair of 2912's and having them repaired numerous times, it doesn't leave any great impression once you go through this. ML stats OTOH, a completely different level.

Getting back to driving Quads with SET amps, well it depends on which type and make of SET. Not all of them were made equally good. Too many variables in SET design. The really good ones cost top dollar and they're really tops!

Cheers, RJ

 

[lowheat]

I concur with ttocs regarding the Latino monoblocks driving my CLS II's, except I didn't hear anything special about the soundstage compared to a good SS design. I've never experienced VTL's personally except at shows, but have Manley's book, where he boasts about the quality of his bifilar-wound transformers (I believe the 300's are of that era. Once a Gordon Holt favorite, which he used with Sound Lab ESL's). Transformers are going to make all the difference as far as keeping the effective impedance low, which you need for ESL's--both by what they introduce in impedance and by allowing more nfb while remaining stable. Worth checking out.

Personally, the idea of using one step-down transformer on the amp cascaded with a step-up transformer on the speakers grates on my engineering sensibilities. Now, using one low ratio step-up between the tube plates and ESL stators makes a lot of sense to me, but nobody has tried that to my knowledge, at least not commercially. Maybe I will one day. For now, I am thrilled with my Parasound JC-1 monoblocks.

Maybe you just need an EQ or tone controls for TV. For me, music is the whole reason for high end audio, and movies and TV just go along for the ride.

Personally, the idea of using one step-down transformer on the amp cascaded with a step-up transformer on the speakers grates on my engineering sensibilities.
I understand. Acoustat used to have a tube mono amp (probably made for them by someone else) that drove the electrostatic elements directly. I used a pair to drive the old Acoustat 2+2. But the thing is, these would be very old now, don't know who would service them, and if like everything else in high-end audio over the past decade, would probably cost a bazillion dollars. Buyers should be aware that extremely high voltages are involved, IIRC. Roger Modjeski admired them.