Total System/Room Upgrade

[Rich]

I haven't posted a lot on the forum lately, as life intervenes. But I wanted to update you guys on what I'm up to right now. I installed my system into my media room seven years ago, and then promptly had a child and got busy raising her. As some of you know, I took a little heat on the forum for never posting my system. I always intended to post it when I finished the room, but with the baby arriving I never got around to completely finishing it. (And then it kind of turned into a big joke whether or not I was ever going to post it . . .) Over the next seven years the system saw much less use than I would have liked, and I never really got the room and system to the point I was totally happy with it for movies or music, and likewise never got around to posting my system on the forum.

Lately, I have had more time to spend in my media room and I have come to lament some of the limitations of the room and the system as I had it originally set up. So I decided to take on a major project and completely change things up. I am changing out the majority of components in the system and adding a ton of acoustical treatments to the room, including lots more bass traps and a bunch of diffusers. I am completely separating my 2-channel music system from my movie/TV/Game home theater system (but keeping them in the same room).

I am installing an Audyssey 11.2 channel surround system (Marantz AV8801) with all Definitive Technology speakers for the home theater system (all eleven speakers, three of which have integrated subs and amps). I am really excited and think this is going to sound incredible. The Audyssey system combined with the DefTech speakers should create a seamless 3-d sound field, with plenty of deep bass to anchor the effects. And I've got a new OPPO BDP-105D player, so the sound and video on movies and music should be superb.

For 2-channel music, I will be driving the Summits with my old Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2 preamp and Premier 140 Stereo tube amp (switching from ARC Ref 3 and Sanders Sound Monoblocs). My main source will now be a PS Audio Perfectwave Memory Player feeding into a Direct Stream DAC (switching from Wadia 981i). Yes, I'm still a disk spinner. But I do have plans to upgrade to PS Audio's next network bridge card for the DSD DAC when it comes out next year and start (finally) ripping all my discs losslessly to a RAID network drive.

I will also be moving the Summits further out from the front wall (hopefully a full five feet -- they have been around three) and replacing the absorption behind them with diffusion. I expect this will give much more height, width, and depth to the soundstage. The abundance of bass traps I am adding and the Summit repositioning will hopefully improve the bass response even further which should result in better overall sound. To deal with some power issues, I have added a PS Audio P-10 Power Regenerator to the mix. Power is no longer an issue.

I am about halfway through installing everything. Still waiting on some stuff to get here. So I hope to be finished with it sometime in mid to late January. After that, I promise you guys I'll take a bunch of pictures and post my damn system already!

I can go ahead and give you some early impressions though. Getting the CJ tube gear hooked up to my Summits for the first time was magical! I had only used them on the Ascents before, and that was over seven years ago. They are so dynamic and liquid and musical. They just create amazing beautiful-sounding, toe-tapping music. Voices and instruments are realistic and the soundstage is superb. And this is with the speakers not even set up well and with the room half finished. And the DAC is brand spanking new and has had no burn in. Can't believe things sound as good as they do with just a preliminary test. So I am very excited to get things finished out and the new equipment fully set up and burned in! I'll keep you all updated on my progress.

One other thing to note: With all this changing of the guard in my equipment rack, I will be putting quite a bit of gear up for sale in the classifieds section over the next few months, including ML Clarities, ML Frescos (with stands), ML Stage Center channel, ML Descent subwoofer, ARC Ref 3 preamp, Sanders Sound mono bloc amps, Meridian G68 Digital Surround Controller, and a Wadia 981i Disc Player. Maybe more stuff I can't even remember right now. Might be awhile before I can get it all posted in the classifieds, but I figured I would give everyone the heads up.
Rock on! :rocker:

 

[Gordon Gray]

Rich,

Very exciting. Def Tech is a great choice and provides big bang for the buck.

What's the status of your Pass 350.5 amp? I'm very interested assuming you are selling and we can agree on price.

Best and Happy Holidays to you and family.

Gordon

 

[amey01]

So you've finally saved up for some MLs? You forgot to mention the Bose system in the classifieds section.

mid to late January. After that, I promise you guys I'll take a bunch of pictures and post my damn system already!

Okay then - will hold you to it. Not expecting much success in doing so though.

 

[slowGEEZR]

Sounds like you've got it well planned out, Rich. Looking forward to the progress reports!

 

[Rich]

What's the status of your Pass 350.5 amp? I'm very interested assuming you are selling and we can agree on price.

Sorry, Gordon. But the Pass will continue to sit in the basement system powering the venerable Ascents. I love it too much to ever part with it, honestly. I know you understand. And if I ever tire of the CJ gear, the Pass will probably be going up into the main system.

Okay then - will hold you to it. Not expecting much success in doing so though.

I understand your cynicism, Adam. I know I have let you down before. Fair enough.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Sorry, Gordon. But the Pass will continue to sit in the basement system powering the venerable Ascents. I love it too much to ever part with it, honestly. I know you understand.

Well my friend, I'll blame this on you.

You got my audio juices going. I contacted Reno Hi Fi, who happens to have a used, refurbed 350.5 available.

Spoke with Mark and he's given me a price that's very difficult to pass (no pun intended) up.

Yes, I totally understand. This is something I've been thinking about for some time.

So, the beast is on hold till tomorrow. We'll see what the audio demons decide.

Maybe Santa will be good this year. :devil:

Best,

Gordon

 

[Rich]

So, the beast is on hold till tomorrow. We'll see what the audio demons decide.

Maybe Santa will be good this year. :devil:

Gordon, don't hesitate. Just do it! I promise you that you won't regret this investment. It is a fabulous amp! Oh, and invite a friend or two over to help with the unpacking and install. Seriously. The thing is a tank.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Yes my friend. All 132 lbs. of it.

 

[Joey_V]

Rich,

The day you post pics of your system will be one of those days that will live in infamy... years from now, I will recall where I was when I first stumbled onto a pic of your system. LOL! Just kidding man.

Regarding the overhaul, sounds like a good plan. Will keep an eye on your journey.

Few things I want to know from you:
1. You like the old CJ more than the Ref 3??
2. You like diffusion more than absorption behind the panels/stats?
3. Room size? Ceiling height?
4. Do you have clouds installed?
5. Panel of the Summits, tilted forward?

 

[Rich]

Hey Joey. To answer your questions:

1. Not so simple as that. I had the Ref 3 matched with the Sanders mono blocs, and together they produce a very neutral, accurate, and dynamic presentation. They sound great pushing the Summits. The CJ tube gear gives a different presentation. Much more warmth and liquidity to the music and a portrayal of pace, rythym, and timing that just pulls you into the music. I would characterize the ARC/Sanders combo as very neutral and accurate, and the CJ combo as just magical sounding. It's not so much that I prefer one over the other. Both are great. But I was just ready for a change back to the magical sound of the CJ.

2. Again, not so simple. I have been trying to work within the limitations of a tight room where it is very difficult to get the speakers far enough away from the front wall for diffusion to be effective. In that situation, with the speakers about three feet from the front wall, absorption of the back wave was the best option. This solution increased resolution and imaging, but I always new my soundstage was suffering by not being able to use the delayed back wave. So I have rearranged the room a bit and managed to get the speakers five feet out and am putting diffuser panels behind them. I can tell from my tests so far that the improvements to soundstage will be impressive, but I haven't got it all installed yet so can't give you any conclusive results yet.

3. Room is 19' x 14' with 10' ceilings.

4. Not sure what you mean? What are clouds?

5. Panel of Summits is absolutely vertical, using Jason's rear spikes. No tilt.

 

[bonzo]

My room is same, 18.5 * 15.5 feet, with 11' ceilings. But I had the Summits on my long wall. I took off absorbtion because the soundstage suffered, and I didn't like diffusers either. Kept the wall naked.

So you like the Pass more than the Sanders?

 

[Joey_V]

Clouds are treatments that hang from the ceiling which negates first reflection points above seated position and prevent that sound stage from being yanked too high up.

Hey Joey. To answer your questions:

1. Not so simple as that. I had the Ref 3 matched with the Sanders mono blocs, and together they produce a very neutral, accurate, and dynamic presentation. They sound great pushing the Summits. The CJ tube gear gives a different presentation. Much more warmth and liquidity to the music and a portrayal of pace, rythym, and timing that just pulls you into the music. I would characterize the ARC/Sanders combo as very neutral and accurate, and the CJ combo as just magical sounding. It's not so much that I prefer one over the other. Both are great. But I was just ready for a change back to the magical sound of the CJ.

2. Again, not so simple. I have been trying to work within the limitations of a tight room where it is very difficult to get the speakers far enough away from the front wall for diffusion to be effective. In that situation, with the speakers about three feet from the front wall, absorption of the back wave was the best option. This solution increased resolution and imaging, but I always new my soundstage was suffering by not being able to use the delayed back wave. So I have rearranged the room a bit and managed to get the speakers five feet out and am putting diffuser panels behind them. I can tell from my tests so far that the improvements to soundstage will be impressive, but I haven't got it all installed yet so can't give you any conclusive results yet.

3. Room is 19' x 14' with 10' ceilings.

4. Not sure what you mean? What are clouds?

5. Panel of Summits is absolutely vertical, using Jason's rear spikes. No tilt.

 

[Joey_V]

Btw, it's interesting that all 3 of our dedicated rooms are similar in size. I seriously thought I was lacking room size all along. I still wish I added a few feet each way. Like 21x17 would've been fantastic.

Next house.

 

[Rich]

Clouds are treatments that hang from the ceiling which negates first reflection points above seated position and prevent that sound stage from being yanked too high up.

Ahh, got you. Yes, I have two bass traps that are full frequency absorbers hanging directly above the screen and I have three thinner panels to hang in the ceiling first reflection points for the LCR home theater speakers. I'm not too concerned with ceiling reflections from the Summits, since they are line sources. Also, in addition to the diffusers I added to the front of the room, I also added a good bit of diffusion to the rear of the room to enhance the surround sound field. I now have a really nice mixture of absorption and diffusion. As for ideal room size, I would love something 19' x 25', with 13' ceilings. Yeah, that would work.

 

[bonzo]

Btw, it's interesting that all 3 of our dedicated rooms are similar in size. I seriously thought I was lacking room size all along. I still wish I added a few feet each way. Like 21x17 would've been fantastic.

Next house.

That's the size I plan too, hopefully next year, so I can have rear speakers behind the sofa

 

[bonzo]

So you like the Pass more than the Sanders?

 

[Rich]

So you like the Pass more than the Sanders?

Again, it is not quite as simple as that. They both have great qualities and are both phenomenal amps that drive Logans with ease. One is more neutral and powerful, while the other has more warmth and tube-like presentation (but it is still a very powerful SS amp). I will simply say that I have lived with the Sanders for seven years in the main system and have enjoyed them very much, but they are not the sound I am looking for long term. I want a little more of the warmth and liquidity of tubes. The Pass does that better than most solid state amps with its initial class A output. I have just decided that I have no reason to keep both and long term I think I would prefer to keep the Pass. Honestly, another reason that weighs in to the discussion, is ease of packing and shipping. It will be so much easier to ship the Sanders amps. But ultimately, if I ever decide to remove the CJ gear from the system, then the Pass is the amp I want to put in its place. Therefore, the Sanders goes up for sale. So, yes, I guess I like the Pass more than the Sanders.

(But I really like them both a lot)

 

[bonzo]

Is it the XA or the X that drive stats better?

 

[Rich]

Is it the XA or the X that drive stats better?

I think the XA has a more tubelike sound, as it outputs all Class A. But I think the X.5 series drives stat panels with more authority.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Hey Rich,

One 350.5 on its way.

Gordon