Tilt for m/l speakers

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khenegar

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I have noticed even with m/l's newer models of speakers the 11, 13 that the stat panel tilts back as the earlier models did also and the larger 15, Neolith, CLX and other larger models are perpendicular to the floor? Can anyone please explain why this is? Thanks
 
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ElectroNoob

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From what I read the tilt(or rake) was to allow for people who are standing to still hear the the panels. The reason why the larger speakers don't need to be tilted is because they are already taller than the average standing ear height. The reason why you don't want it tilted is because the sound from the bottom of the panel will be slightly out of sync with the top. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

khenegar

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From what I read the tilt(or rake) was to allow for people who are standing to still hear the the panels. The reason why the larger speakers don't need to be tilted is because they are already taller than the average standing ear height. The reason why you don't want it tilted is because the sound from the bottom of the panel will be slightly out of sync with the top. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong.
That is not true u been listening to some of the forum members that feel that is the reason, u need to contact Martin Logan on the real reason for this rake! It doesn't make sense to design a speaker that is listenable while ur standing, have u ever read a review on the Martin logans that the reviewer changed the rake angle for the review! It's true about the larger panel Logan's about not needing the rake!
 

Rich

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That is not true u been listening to some of the forum members that feel that is the reason, u need to contact Martin Logan on the real reason for this rake! It doesn't make sense to design a speaker that is listenable while ur standing, have u ever read a review on the Martin logans that the reviewer changed the rake angle for the review! It's true about the larger panel Logan's about not needing the rake!
I think electroNoob's summary is the correct answer. ML's never had a rake until they started producing shorter speakers. Of the current lineup, those that are about five foot tall or shorter have the rake and those that are closer to six foot and taller don't have the rake. The explanation put forth above is the most likely reason for the rake. And yes, actually, I do recall a review where the reviewer described adjusting the rake to adapt to your seating position. Jeff Dorgay did so, in his review of the Summit X in Tone Audio, in the section of the review describing speaker setup.

By the way, ML didn't even provide rear spikes long enough to adjust the rake until after JTWRace started offering them as aftermarket parts on this forum after the original Summits came out and people were unhappy with the rake. ML saw it was a good idea (I assume) and included them as part of the Summit X upgrade. I have one of JTWRace's first pair of spikes on my Summits to this day. The rake is set to vertical and it sounds great.
 

ElectroNoob

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That is not true u been listening to some of the forum members that feel that is the reason, u need to contact Martin Logan on the real reason for this rake! It doesn't make sense to design a speaker that is listenable while ur standing, have u ever read a review on the Martin logans that the reviewer changed the rake angle for the review! It's true about the larger panel Logan's about not needing the rake!
OK so I just got off the phone with Peter from MartinLogan and he said there are 2 parts to why there is a rake.

1) As I mentioned before it was for people who are standing to hear the full frequency range. Seeing as though most of the shorter speakers are sold in retail audio rooms without a seated listening area (think BB), they need to be able to sound good while someone is standing 3-4 feet away from them.
2) The other reason for the rake is for safety compliance with European countries. Because it is an electrified product there are restrictions on how easily it is for it to tilt over.

Thank you to Peter for letting me use up your lunch hour!
 
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RCHeliGuy

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OK so I just got off the phone with Pete from MartinLogan and he said there are 2 parts to why there is a rake.

1) As I mentioned before it was for people who are standing to hear the full frequency range. Seeing as though most of the shorter speakers are sold in retail audio rooms without a seated listening area (think BB), they need to be able to sound good while someone is standing 3-4 feet away from them.
2) The other reason for the rake is for safety compliance with European countries. Because it is an electrified product there are restrictions on how easily it is for it to tilt over.

Thank you to Pete for letting me use up your lunch hour!

That makes perfect sense and matches my experience perfectly.

I had made my speakers nearly vertical at one point and ended up "compromising" by splitting the difference between where they sounded the best sitting (straight) vs. standing(raked).

The solution I like better is to get the speakers further off the ground so they reach higher like the larger speakers do :)

If I put thick block of wood under them and rake them vertical they sound great while I'm seated and still sound good when I'm standing.

It's too bad that I don't have room for larger speakers than I do :(
 

khenegar

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Tilt

That makes perfect sense and matches my experience perfectly.

I had made my speakers nearly vertical at one point and ended up "compromising" by splitting the difference between where they sounded the best sitting (straight) vs. standing(raked).

The solution I like better is to get the speakers further off the ground so they reach higher like the larger speakers do :)

If I put thick block of wood under them and rake them vertical they sound great while I'm seated and still sound good when I'm standing.

It's too bad that I don't have room for larger speakers than I do :(
Well I got a different view on the reason for the rake but to each his own and what he likes! that's what makes this hobby so interesting and enjoyable. Thanks for your opinions
 

Rich

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It's too bad that I don't have room for larger speakers than I do :(
I feel you on this one, Mark. In my experience, the larger ML's offer so much more than the smaller ones. Although I haven't heard the ethos, I expect you would get a lot better performance out of one of the larger models. But space can be a wicked constraint. I'm not sure I could go much larger than the Summits in my media room. Things are pretty tight in there as it is.
 

jake9

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I feel you on this one, Mark. In my experience, the larger ML's offer so much more than the smaller ones. Although I haven't heard the ethos, I expect you would get a lot better performance out of one of the larger models. But space can be a wicked constraint. I'm not sure I could go much larger than the Summits in my media room. Things are pretty tight in there as it is.
This is an interesting thread. I always thought the reason for the rake was so the panels could be made larger without having them look so massive. In my own experience, I had a big improvement in eliminating the rake by making my Theos vertical! Very happy with the results this yielded.
 

Rich

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This is an interesting thread. I always thought the reason for the rake was so the panels could be made larger without having them look so massive. In my own experience, I had a big improvement in eliminating the rake by making my Theos vertical! Very happy with the results this yielded.
Yes, changing the rake to vertical will almost always improve the sound. Introducing the rake was a poor design choice for ML, in my opinion.
 

Nopiano

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Well I got a different view on the reason for the rake but to each his own and what he likes! that's what makes this hobby so interesting and enjoyable. Thanks for your opinions
As a newcomer to ML, I'd be interested in your opinion. I already think I prefer mine near vertical, but then my seating is rather lower than average (though I'm taller than average)!
 

khenegar

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Tilt

As a newcomer to ML, I'd be interested in your opinion. I already think I prefer mine near vertical, but then my seating is rather lower than average (though I'm taller than average)!
With my summits at a 90 degree I felt they were to bright and irritating, especially with rock music! with them back the way Martin Logan wants them it was more pleasing and enjoyable to listen to! Now theres going to be people that disagree with this but try it out take some books and tilt up the back to see what u like and then adjust the feet for that angle. With them tilted back ur listening to more of the bottom of the panel! Some people like just going half way not a full 90 degree. Also ur seating will have an effect and ur room! Good listening
 

Nopiano

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Nopiano, I see you have Electromotions too. Look at my post in the tweak section about adding sound dampening to them. It's relatively cheap and easy and it will significantly improve the bass.

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?17274-Dampening-Electromotion-with-No-Rez
That's very kind of you. Unfortunately I've returned them as I couldn't manage the bass in my 22 feet long room. Never had such an issue before, but the upper range was masked and/or insufficiently clear. Newsreaders sounded like they had a cold; cymbals lacked a natural fizz. Not a problem I had anticipated, but our room - not untypical here in the U.K. - is quite softly furnished. The adverts all show tiled floors and huge glazed areas, which I think the speakers need.

Now happily trialling some ATC SMC 40, which are stunningly clear! Best wishes.
 

TatuHoo

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Tilt



With my summits at a 90 degree I felt they were to bright and irritating, especially with rock music! with them back the way Martin Logan wants them it was more pleasing and enjoyable to listen to! Now theres going to be people that disagree with this but try it out take some books and tilt up the back to see what u like and then adjust the feet for that angle. With them tilted back ur listening to more of the bottom of the panel! Some people like just going half way not a full 90 degree. Also ur seating will have an effect and ur room! Good listening

Slight backward tilt also reduces floor reflections that can have huge impact on the sound. So I keep the rake as it is, it works best for me!. Toe-in has much more impact on the sound as have distances from back & side walls.
 

akm3

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In the Zeos review on Youtube of the ESL X, he used a hockey puck ish sized thing to eliminate the rake and claimed it improved the sound.
 
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