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bonzo

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This whole thread is interesting, but here is an extract:

"Getting high sensitivity speakers can cut your power amp expenditure substantially. Three designs are likely to perform like a modernized Apogee Fullrange.
The Analysis Audio Orion, which is a Scintilla like speaker with an extra pair of subwoofer like panels. Has a sensitivity of 86 db and would require multiple 500 watt amps and still leave you a bit short on max spl. Here the base speakers are $50K and need 3 pairs of MA 3 amps at %66K a pair (gulp) brings you to $248K, Using a top Pass solid state for the bass panels instead of one of the Atmaspheres, gets you to $198K or so.

The Apogee (Australia) Definitive Fullrange like speaker at 96 db sensitivity would use 100 watt amps instead. At $102k + 3 pairs of Atma Sphere MA 1 we have $132K.
The other idea here is to use a high efficiency Aussie Apogee - the Scintilla like Synergy model, but join it with a subwoofer, particularly the Infraplanar. The Synergy can be powered with a set of 100 watt amps, and the Ifraplanar (sensitivity of 92 db) with solid state amplification. One Infraplanar with appropriate amp and a Synergy should come to $32K for the Synergy $8K for one Infraplanar. With 4 Atma Sphere MA 1 pairs at $10 K each comes to $80K, $88K with two Infraplanars.

For a DIY option, you can experiment as I did and see if you like the idea. The midrange - highs Neo8 array cost me all of $800 to build and transformed my Magnepan Tympani IV beyond anything I could imagine.
A Neo8PDR driver line array similar to the one I built for midrange use is flat at least to 14 KHz and drops slowly from there. The bottom cutoff of the array depends on its length. A line of 12 units mounted on a broad baffle should roll off at about 100 Hz. I am using my 6 unit array without crossover and it rolls off steeply below 160 Hz. I have them mounted in what amounts to a shallow wave guide that lowers the low end cutoff slightly to that range. It is on par with anything I have ever heard as to detail retrieval, transient performance, and imaging. That includes Accoustats, Martin Logan CLS, Apogee Fullrange, and the better Apogee Grand midrange. This is particularly the case when operated without crossover.
To this you can add a pair of Inraplanar panels, or old Carver Amazing Platinum IV panels for woofers. Or use old Magnepan Tympani III or Tympani IV bass panels for midwoofer and add a normal sub below 40 hz.

In all, you would be spending less than $2k for the midrange drivers and the carpentry. The sensitivity is about 94-96 db so the lower power amp is sufficient. If it works well for you then you need to add bass drivers/subwoofers and crossovers. The whole thing using a remounted Tympani bass should come in under $8K, with $1-2 K for Tympani bass, $2-3k for the carpentry to remount them, $2k for basic crossover. $18k with a good subwoofer. With a pair of Infraplanars instead, you have a total outlay of just under $20K and you could run this with the lower cost Atma Sphere MA-1 power amps.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/15/150113.html

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/14/149893.html
 
Hm he seems to want a lot of power to drive Definitive and Synergy.

Graz had Definitive (massive planar) running of 4 17 Watt 4Ohm tap tube amps and he really liked it.

Synergy - why would you need a sub when it hits 20Hz anyway? Also, you defo won't need 100 Watts - a 20 Watt 4Ohm tube amp would be OK I reckon.

Both these speakers are probably the best planar magnetic speakers ever made I suspect.

Bonzo - they use neodymium magnets which cost a fortune for even the Synergy. I tried to get Jon to make my new speakers with them but he chickened out. He was afraid of the forces involved. A couple of tonnes of force is required to correct mistakes.

Forget Omegas and Duettas. If you want the world's best planar magnetic speaker just by a pair of Synergys.

Just looked up the Neo drivers. They "look" like Infinity type devices. I bet they're very good.

You should track down the 2 UK Synergy owners bonz. When you hear those...:)
 
Are your Apogee Graz ones? What's the difference?

I like the whole thread, the comments by Satie. He suggests using Neo8pdr, Maggie Tymphanis and/or bass panels and building something by modding that will be extremely cheap and will compare to the Definitives. Btw, there is a Gryphon Panel at 150k euros.

There are people combining two pairs of Soundlabs, putting one pair at right angles to the first and playing it at 30% volume. There is also a pic of 4 SL panels, of which 2 are bass. These guys are crazy. Rasmaudio has done something similar.

Check these http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/14/149907.html

And this is to buy before you die http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/14/149818.html
 
The first link shows the Definitives with the tube amps I was talking about, at Graz's house. I don't believe anyone has ever ordered a pair.

The only thing in my speakers made by Graz is the ribbons - both new and old. The Synergy is a Graz original speaker from the ground up - look it up. I know more about it and how it is made internally than I should tell on a public forum. But basically it is a very efficient Scintilla made to a much higher spec and using much better materials and some very good new ideas.
 

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