The difference between CORPORATE and Private Companies!

[C.A.P]

Well I have came to a real eye opener here in the last month. I have not been posting much in the last 2 years as of NO real desire to argue the facts of placement and speaker wires or amplification and all that same diatribe.

That along with some major life changes that blew in and have blown out like all storms do. Being happy for a long time with my CLS set up I took a break from it all.. Its been fun too but I have now been stuck with the fact that I need NEW panels for my CLS.

Originally they were $900 a pair for many years and that went up to $1500 for a while when ML was being owned by the holdings company. Now enter in Paradigm (Corporate bully) They raised the price to $2750 plus shipping. I already stated my point in another thread about this and what I thinks they are doing.

Anyways After calling ML and realizing I am putting almost $3k into a potential paper weight .( ML does not support the X over or any electronics), I decided that my Fritz Carbon 7 can do just fine for now until I make a final decision on the fate of the CLS.

{ There are a few options Just Real Music can re furbish them but I have not heard any feedback. Its very reasonable. He states that there is no need to re Mylar them just new coatings and re stretch them and re mount using new 3m material }


Well Having Rosewood veneer which is beautiful by the way, I decided as much as I love it. They just didn't match the new house motif. I called Fritz, (John "Fritz" Heiler) and was inquiring about some new Maple veneered boxes. I asked how much to make me some new boxes and ship them out. Being a wood worker my self I expected a good bit of $$.. Veneer isn't cheap as well as labor to make them and finish them.

I was truly amazed when Fritz said "you have Rosewood right" I responded YES! He then said, "I will send you out NEW boxes in two weeks and you send me yours back, I can re finish them and re use them as Rosewood is a premium upgrade. I was not only amazed at the simplistic approach but loved the fact of the re cycling of a great box that has nothing wrong with it other than my own desire to change. We agreed to a very minimal cost as I wont take NOTHING from a man for free when he works for me!

This IS what differentiates Corporate bully versus REAL audio people who are passionate about their products and the environment. Fritz has been making speakers since 1973 and still sells direct and has won many of accolades. The Absolute sound , RECOMMENDED components to name a few! Stereophile as well as others have reviewed them with positive favor. This is from a company that is run by ONE man. Not a corporate bully with lots of cash to get glam reviews.

I can tell you this NEVER have I met such a better man to deal with and who has such great recordings to offer you. Fritz is out of southern California and travels a lot to local shows and when permitted to Midwest shows. (Audio Karma). If you cant get to him he will get to you or send you a pair to demo. Nine out of ten who do home demos are customers after.

I am looking forward to my new boxes as it will give me the feel of NEW speakers. This I can tell you. The Jim Powers and Melodie Bruehard days at ML are gone .
Thankfully we have passionate people like Fritz to continue the idea of "customer service is as important to a company as NEW customers".



KUDOS Fritz

 

[User211]

Good to see you posting Chris. I think we'll be needing some pics when the time comes...:rocker:

$2,750 hey? On yer bike, as they say in these parts

 

[MPS]

I wonder how is the replacement panel price in EU if it has tripled in US? I suppose we are talking something bit over the price of the new speaker itself, lol -NOT!

 

[Gordon Gray]

Chris,

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I totally understand your frustration.

It does appear that ML is intentionally alienating long time customers from refurbishing their legacy models.

What a shame.

Doesn't bode well, in my mind, for their long term interests.

Gordon

 

[Horchem1972]

Where is ML mouthpiece Justin now!!

Where is the ML mouthpiece to justify the outheard of price increase. They know that nobody will pay that price. Guess what ML, you will completely lose customers instead of gaining new ones with the absurd price increase.

 

[Gordon Gray]

Well guys.

In hindsight, ML said they were not going to support panel replacement on certain models and then, due to the cries of protest on this site, they reversed their decision and indicated that they will support panel replacement.

They certainly have but at a price that apparently accomplishes their original goal.

Yes Justin, any comment?

Should have just stayed with your original intent / plan of action and not p**ssed people off even more.

Suffice to say that this action will devalue used ML speakers on the market not to mention other negative implications such as planned obsolescence.

GG

 

[C.A.P]

They tried to soft sell their reasons for the HUGE price increase.. Like I said its forced extinction in hopes of new sales. When in reality its gonna be lost sales from older repeat purchasers.

Too bad we all seen it coming with the change of guard. Look at any company that gets bought out by a big conglomerate ! In comes China and out goes brains for $$$

New Maple boxes are on the way and cant wait to get them dialed in. Its exciting as new stands and new room will make for a fun time.

Hasta la Vista ML

 

[Rich]

No surprise here from my end. I called it for what it was years ago, and half the people on this site said I was a fool and lambasted me for it. It really isn't rocket science. When the impersonal holding company that bought ML decided to combine ML with Paradigm, move production out of US, and hire a guy with no audio experience to run the company (a guy whose real claim to fame was his cost-cutting ability in his last job), then it was obvious they were taking ML down this route. I don't expect I will ever buy another ML product in my lifetime.

 

[User211]

Emergency plan B Rich - get some refurbished Apogees - or I'll accept some Avantgardes of some description as an adequate alternative

Talking of replacement bits I heard today that China is to be investigated by the World Trade Organisation for holding up the price of rare earth materials/limiting exports. I think we can safely say magnets are in with that - pretty relevant to hi-fi. Funnily enough if the WTO succeeds in reducing prices I don't expect we'll see loudspeaker prices drop in a hurry

 

[amey01]

Emergency plan B Rich - get some refurbished Apogees - or I'll accept some Avantgardes of some description as an adequate alternative

Don't know I'd go that far. There's only one thing worse than a big corporate like ML treating customers with contempt, and that's when the company doesn't exist at all.

 

[User211]

Don't know I'd go that far. There's only one thing worse than a big corporate like ML treating customers with contempt, and that's when the company doesn't exist at all.

I understand the joke, Adam, I really do. However, the reality is completely the opposite in this particular case. Since it is thread relevant, here's a few points I have found with Apogee.

1) The product is absolutely stellar. It really is. I have had them two years now and they are absolutely extrodinary speakers at current specification.

2) They are lovingly brought back to beyond original performance levels by enthusiasts who aren't making masses of money from the venture - precisely the reverse, I expect. They realise the product is awesome and have done their best to make sure they perform as well as possible for a given outlay.

3) I can have pretty much anything I want done to them within reason. I have had personal visits to trim the sonics by ear (and measurements) via cross-over changes. I have had a ribbon upgrade that exceeded all expectations.

4) Due to rare earth prices and China holding a 97% monopoly on such materials, the magnets used in full range Apogees now cost as much as a small car. That's why you'll find very few magnets in the latest Maggie efforts I suspect. Apogee is probably the only manufacturer who will still make you a new pair of properly implemented ribbon loudspeakers for this reason. But that option does cost - same as a pair of CLXs or maybe a bit more. I'm confident you'll get better than CLX performance - they'll get crucified when it comes to bass and dynamic/transient ability. For the music I like, I think the pair I have are better than CLXs - to my taste at any rate.

5) The next stage will probably be internal aluminium frame bracing and other mods adding a further 10KG of weight to each speaker. This will help with structural rigidity and make bass performance even better - it is already very, very good indeed. Better than any ML I have heard.

The only real risk is Graz gives up - but even if he does there's probably a good 10 years left in the speakers at the absolute minimum before a re-ribbon. I regard that as very acceptable for the outlay, TBH.

This isn't intended to cause upsets and you must forgive my enthusiasm - I'm just saying what I believe to be true. The only other thing to add is I'm just fortunate to live about an hour's drive from a restorer.

Get service like that from ML? Much as I love them - not a cat in hell's chance!!

 

[Rich]

Well, I appreciate the suggestions, Justin. I expect my Summits will last me for quite some time, and when they are ready to be replaced I will have to look at what is available. I tend to lean toward some Omnipolar speakers like the MBLs, although I have a lot of respect for good ribbons, as well as the Avant Garde's. Then there is always Roger Sanders' speakers, which I think are phenomenal.

Back on topic, it really is just a shame to see a great company like ML go down this route. We have seen it before in this business and we will certainly see it again. The simple fact is that, in this country at least, it is very difficult to run a company as a private business once it gets to a certain size, and once you sell, the holding company or corporate purchaser is almost always going to try to squeeze profits by leveraging the name while destroying everything that made the brand famous. It's just the nature of the corporate mindset.

 

[RichTeer]

Back on topic, it really is just a shame to see a great company like ML go down this route. We have seen it before in this business and we will certainly see it again. The simple fact is that, in this country at least, it is very difficult to run a company as a private business once it gets to a certain size, and once you sell, the holding company or corporate purchaser is almost always going to try to squeeze profits by leveraging the name while destroying everything that made the brand famous. It's just the nature of the corporate mindset.

Indeed. i would hate for ML to become another Infinity. Infinity went from right near the very top of the speaker food chain (remember the IRS V?) to making crappy home theatre and car speakers. What a come down... :-(

 

[amey01]

I understand the joke, Adam, I really do.

Yes, well Australian and English humour is similar.........