Well, I must say yours is the most original setup I've ever seen so far! I'd be constantly worried the ceiling bolts might not hold. I have a 130 lb projector on the ceiling too, just about where the seats are and I do worry often.
Ben
Ben
System #57 (Ascent i, Theater i, Descent, Script i)
- Thread starter Robin
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Robin
Well-known member
My Lovely Script i's ~ "Killer Sound From Above"
Ben,
Welcome to the ML Club!
Thank you for the kind words. I must confess I used to worry in the beginning if my Script i's would slip out of their coated cabling and fall on my head but not any more. Friends have even accidentally bumped them and my Script i's just sway a little and that's about it. I have even have cleaned them, several times since we installed them, and it's even easier to vacuum them (front / back) in their current position.
May I ask, what types of ML's do you have in your system? Do you have the marvelous Script i's as well?
It is good to have you here, Ben.
Ben,
Welcome to the ML Club!
Thank you for the kind words. I must confess I used to worry in the beginning if my Script i's would slip out of their coated cabling and fall on my head but not any more. Friends have even accidentally bumped them and my Script i's just sway a little and that's about it.
I have even have cleaned them, several times since we installed them, and it's even easier to vacuum them (front / back) in their current position. May I ask, what types of ML's do you have in your system? Do you have the marvelous Script i's as well?
It is good to have you here, Ben.
Joey_V
Well-known member
No matter how many times I see your system Robin... it still amazes me with those flying Scripts of yours and the immensely large Theater floating out of the front wall.
You are a treat, Robin!
I just hope you dont start hanging the MBL Radiasomething, too!
Joey
You are a treat, Robin!
I just hope you dont start hanging the MBL Radiasomething, too!
Joey
Ben,
May I ask, what types of ML's do you have in your system? Do you have the marvelous Script i's as well?
Hi Robin,
So sorry for not responding earlier - I missed visiting this thread after posting.
My ML system -
Front - Summits
Centre - Stage
Surround - Passage
LFE - Descent
all driven by Classe and Marantz gears in a room 23'x16'x9' (converted from 2 bedrooms)
I thought I was the crazy one on DVDs - 650 pieces and counting - till I saw yours. Now I feel quite normal having found a like-minded being.I still can't get over your flying Scripts - you've got amazing ideas! Real cool
Ben
Robin
Well-known member
Summits / Stage / Passage / Descent.... A Totally Awesome Combination...
Thanks again for the kind words. Your system driven by Classe and Marantz electronics must be wonderful and totally awesome to listen to... It is my hope that someday soon you will post your system here at the ML Club. Personally, I would love to see your system as well as read more about your audio experiences. I don't think, I have ever seen a set-up with your particular combination of ML speakers together with your specific Classe / Marantz electronics. Anyway, I would encourage you to post someday, as I think we would all enjoy your system.
I know I've probably said this before, in one form or another but I just love how my small, near field HT system sounds. Sure, it could be soooo much better... Still to my ears - I am in Sonic Nirvana... I guess, I am feeling a bit reflective because it's Thanksgiving Day... But I am very thankful for my system and my lovely ML speakers. I look at it this way, I am sooo enthralled by the marvelous musical sounds my ML speakers reveal, that I am aspiring for more so much more ~ Joeyitis ~ in a pure two (maybe three) channel ~ Music listening only audio system... It may take me five years to complete, given the expensive nature of even used, 'Audiogon' High-End audiophile electronic gear, I dream of... As audiophiles, what we do in the name of truly beautifully astounding, spine tingling, inspiration-ally magical sounds, for our ears is really the driving factor in this wonderful hobby / way of life, of ours...
I am always amazed by how folks make new discoveries and innovations through combining different components / electronic gear to form their own uniquely wonderful sounds, for their ears... Maybe that's what makes our fascination with all things audio so interesting to us because we are forever discovering new ideas, auditioning, listening / hearing new audio information, which dazzles / tickles our audiophile imagination.
Ben your ideas of combining the unique components, which make-up your system are inspiring to me. And I'll tell you why, I think its because I have never encountered or considered the integration of a system such as yours. Your system gets me thinking. Your system sparks my curiosity. It makes me want to see it and read your descriptions of the sounds you hear, from your totally unique sound / audio perspective. I want to know all about it... Your thoughts and ideas are valuable because whether I understand or not, agree or not, still am transfixed, educated, interested and challenged in audio ways which is what I love... It all goes to the absolute enjoyment of listening / hearing, curiosity, investigating, experimenting with all things audio, which is why I simply love the ML Club so much...
Well, thanks again Ben and thanks for reading my audiophile rantings...
And it is really wonderful to have you here.
Ben,
Thanks again for the kind words. Your system driven by Classe and Marantz electronics must be wonderful and totally awesome to listen to...
It is my hope that someday soon you will post your system here at the ML Club. Personally, I would love to see your system as well as read more about your audio experiences. I don't think, I have ever seen a set-up with your particular combination of ML speakers together with your specific Classe / Marantz electronics. Anyway, I would encourage you to post someday, as I think we would all enjoy your system. I know I've probably said this before, in one form or another but I just love how my small, near field HT system sounds. Sure, it could be soooo much better... Still to my ears - I am in Sonic Nirvana... I guess, I am feeling a bit reflective because it's Thanksgiving Day... But I am very thankful for my system and my lovely ML speakers. I look at it this way, I am sooo enthralled by the marvelous musical sounds my ML speakers reveal, that I am aspiring for more so much more ~ Joeyitis ~ in a pure two (maybe three) channel ~ Music listening only audio system... It may take me five years to complete, given the expensive nature of even used, 'Audiogon' High-End audiophile electronic gear, I dream of... As audiophiles, what we do in the name of truly beautifully astounding, spine tingling, inspiration-ally magical sounds, for our ears is really the driving factor in this wonderful hobby / way of life, of ours...
I am always amazed by how folks make new discoveries and innovations through combining different components / electronic gear to form their own uniquely wonderful sounds, for their ears... Maybe that's what makes our fascination with all things audio so interesting to us because we are forever discovering new ideas, auditioning, listening / hearing new audio information, which dazzles / tickles our audiophile imagination.
Ben your ideas of combining the unique components, which make-up your system are inspiring to me. And I'll tell you why, I think its because I have never encountered or considered the integration of a system such as yours. Your system gets me thinking. Your system sparks my curiosity. It makes me want to see it and read your descriptions of the sounds you hear, from your totally unique sound / audio perspective. I want to know all about it...
Your thoughts and ideas are valuable because whether I understand or not, agree or not, still am transfixed, educated, interested and challenged in audio ways which is what I love... It all goes to the absolute enjoyment of listening / hearing, curiosity, investigating, experimenting with all things audio, which is why I simply love the ML Club so much...Well, thanks again Ben and thanks for reading my audiophile rantings...
And it is really wonderful to have you here.
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Hi Robin,
Firstly, a bit of my audio journey thru the years can be read on my previous postings and threads. Let's spare the guys a repeat of the ups and downs I went thru, agree?
Secondly, I just moved into my new apartment a few months ago (the Summits acquisition was a celebration!). Things in the HT are still a bit makeshift, so I must beg your indulgence for a little while longer. Besides, I must also get hold of a decent camera.
Thirdly, the Classe and Marantz gears are about 13 years old, but to this pair of rheumatic ears, they sound satisfactory enough for the time being. However, I also do think the current crop of amps can bring out the best yet in my system, but they do cost an arm and a leg. So I am deligently looking for another Microsoft or Google counter to invest in to provide the necessary funds.
One thing I learned from my audio journey over the last 40 years, Robin, is to acquire the best you can afford and be satisfied with it. Sit down and really enjoy the music (and picture) and try to avoid focusing on the shortcomings of the system. There will always be something else better. It's a never ending quest if you're looking for perfection. It helps if you are wallowing in old money, but if you have to earn those bucks, it's a struggle and chances are it will make your life miserable. It happened to me. Still, some people enjoy the chase. To each his own, I guess.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Ben
Firstly, a bit of my audio journey thru the years can be read on my previous postings and threads. Let's spare the guys a repeat of the ups and downs I went thru, agree?
Secondly, I just moved into my new apartment a few months ago (the Summits acquisition was a celebration!). Things in the HT are still a bit makeshift, so I must beg your indulgence for a little while longer. Besides, I must also get hold of a decent camera.
Thirdly, the Classe and Marantz gears are about 13 years old, but to this pair of rheumatic ears, they sound satisfactory enough for the time being. However, I also do think the current crop of amps can bring out the best yet in my system, but they do cost an arm and a leg. So I am deligently looking for another Microsoft or Google counter to invest in to provide the necessary funds.
One thing I learned from my audio journey over the last 40 years, Robin, is to acquire the best you can afford and be satisfied with it. Sit down and really enjoy the music (and picture) and try to avoid focusing on the shortcomings of the system. There will always be something else better. It's a never ending quest if you're looking for perfection. It helps if you are wallowing in old money, but if you have to earn those bucks, it's a struggle and chances are it will make your life miserable. It happened to me. Still, some people enjoy the chase. To each his own, I guess.
Happy Thanksgiving.
Ben
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tubes and stats
Hi Robin,
My basic philosophy of system composition (particularly for electrostats) is this:
1.) Use excellent SS gear up front for precision and transparency. Besides, tube preamps and phono preamps always produce some tube hiss, and electrostats will reproduce it very well unfortunately.
2.) Use an excellent tube power amp(s) to enjoy the harmonics, timbre, and decay that even the best SS amps never quite manage to provide. And unlike tube front-end stuff, good tube amps are just as quiet as SS amps.
The only problem with tube amplification is bass control. There's no economic advantage IMO for buying a humongous tube amp to drive a hybrid stat (with woofers) full range. The damping factor is still limited. Whereas the panels alone only need modest power. Better to spend the monetary difference (between a small and large tube amp) to biamp instead with a mid-priced SS amp for the bottom (like a Bryston.)
In their new models, Summit etc, Martin Logan has essentially provided biamplification by building in the SS bass amp. So a modest (wattage) excellent tube amp is all you need. I've even heard of some folks driving big Soundlabs with 30W SET tube amps, but I think that's just silly -- cutting off your amp to spite your bass ;--)
Anyway that's my two cents FWIW.
Thanks for the kind comments on my system. It now sounds as sweet as your remarks . . .
Hi Robin,
My basic philosophy of system composition (particularly for electrostats) is this:
1.) Use excellent SS gear up front for precision and transparency. Besides, tube preamps and phono preamps always produce some tube hiss, and electrostats will reproduce it very well unfortunately.
2.) Use an excellent tube power amp(s) to enjoy the harmonics, timbre, and decay that even the best SS amps never quite manage to provide. And unlike tube front-end stuff, good tube amps are just as quiet as SS amps.
The only problem with tube amplification is bass control. There's no economic advantage IMO for buying a humongous tube amp to drive a hybrid stat (with woofers) full range. The damping factor is still limited. Whereas the panels alone only need modest power. Better to spend the monetary difference (between a small and large tube amp) to biamp instead with a mid-priced SS amp for the bottom (like a Bryston.)
In their new models, Summit etc, Martin Logan has essentially provided biamplification by building in the SS bass amp. So a modest (wattage) excellent tube amp is all you need. I've even heard of some folks driving big Soundlabs with 30W SET tube amps, but I think that's just silly -- cutting off your amp to spite your bass ;--)
Anyway that's my two cents FWIW.
Thanks for the kind comments on my system. It now sounds as sweet as your remarks . . .
Robin
Well-known member
System Composition...
Neil,
Your audio knowledge in this area is great help for me. As you have so much more experience with tubes and SS amps and pre-amp paired with ML speakers. A big consideration for is to use a pre-amp or not. I really had thought that running source-amps-speakers was the way to go originally, without running a pre-amp at all. Then hearing the MC275's matched driven by the source (with leveler) was really astounding. I'm starting to think running a volume controlled source to one or two McIntosh MC275's then to a pair of Summits, which have powered woofers might just be the hot set-up for a exclusive music listening bedroom system....
I still need to audition some more though...
Thanks again for the outstanding guidance and information. I do appreciate your assistance.
Neil,
Your audio knowledge in this area is great help for me. As you have so much more experience with tubes and SS amps and pre-amp paired with ML speakers. A big consideration for is to use a pre-amp or not. I really had thought that running source-amps-speakers was the way to go originally, without running a pre-amp at all. Then hearing the MC275's matched driven by the source (with leveler) was really astounding.
I'm starting to think running a volume controlled source to one or two McIntosh MC275's then to a pair of Summits, which have powered woofers might just be the hot set-up for a exclusive music listening bedroom system.... I still need to audition some more though...
Thanks again for the outstanding guidance and information. I do appreciate your assistance.
Robin, I see no problem eliminating the preamp if you're only going to have one source such as a good CDP or CDT/DAC. A couple of things to consider are impedance matching between the source and amp (don't be alarmed, most sources will work fine with Mac tube amps.) I recommend Wadia equipment for the source because of their unique way of doing digital volume control in addition to their excellent and reliable performance. Also, I recommend using a source (like Wadia) that offers XLR (balanced) outputs so you can run long interconnects from the source (near your bed?) to the amp (near your speakers.)
McIntosh MC 275 biasing
Robin, just FYI, the McIntosh MC275 isn't self-biasing I found out. I doesn't require biasing at all because of the patented "Unity Gain" circuit, where power is drawn from both the tube's plate and its cathode. (More than you wanted to know?) That's also how they get so much power out of a 4 powertube amp that runs so cool. The catch is that doing this requires special "bifilar" wound output transformers (two primaries instead of one), another Mcintosh exclusive. Bottom line: an easy amp to own as well as listen to ;--)
Robin, just FYI, the McIntosh MC275 isn't self-biasing I found out. I doesn't require biasing at all because of the patented "Unity Gain" circuit, where power is drawn from both the tube's plate and its cathode. (More than you wanted to know?) That's also how they get so much power out of a 4 powertube amp that runs so cool. The catch is that doing this requires special "bifilar" wound output transformers (two primaries instead of one), another Mcintosh exclusive. Bottom line: an easy amp to own as well as listen to ;--)
Robin
Well-known member
McIntosh vs. Wadia CD/SACD Players...
Yes, I saw that you are using the marvelous Wadia WT-2000S CD transport and 27 DAC as well... :cheers: I had researched the Wadia, though I have never auditioned Wadia sources before. Wadia sources, as you are aware, have gained excellent reviews. Their build quality looks to be very outstanding. The Wadia 581i CD/SACD player is on my short list for CD/SACD players, which actually offered volume control... So if you don't mind, if I could pick your brain a little bit further... My next question is, if you have auditioned and had the opportunity to compare the over-all sound qualities / charactoristics between your Wadia CD gear and McIntosh CD sources? And if so, what do you think?
The Wadia 581 CD/SACD player look wonderful...
Neil,
Yes, I saw that you are using the marvelous Wadia WT-2000S CD transport and 27 DAC as well... :cheers: I had researched the Wadia, though I have never auditioned Wadia sources before. Wadia sources, as you are aware, have gained excellent reviews. Their build quality looks to be very outstanding. The Wadia 581i CD/SACD player is on my short list for CD/SACD players, which actually offered volume control... So if you don't mind, if I could pick your brain a little bit further... My next question is, if you have auditioned and had the opportunity to compare the over-all sound qualities / charactoristics between your Wadia CD gear and McIntosh CD sources? And if so, what do you think?
The Wadia 581 CD/SACD player look wonderful...
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Robin
Well-known member
Self-Biasing, Cool Running ~ McIntosh MC275 Tubed Amp.....
Yes, I had discovered these wonderful facts when I auditioned the pair of McIntosh MC275's with the MCD201 player. 'The Audio Showroom' ~ sales guy was very quick to point this out to me. I ran my hand over the amplifiers at the end of my audition and I was shocked how cool they were, not what I expected at all, the MC275's were more than what expected... They were something special indeed. What glorious sounds they made... Amazing tube sweetness with thrilling, outstanding bass as well...
I totally agree, the MC275's seem to be very easy maintained - tubed power amplifier to own / opperate.
Are you considering tube rolling someday to 'new old stock' (NOS) tubes someday? GE, Sylvania or Siemons similar to what Joey just did, to improve the tube sound of your MC275 a little bit further?
Neil,
Yes, I had discovered these wonderful facts when I auditioned the pair of McIntosh MC275's with the MCD201 player. 'The Audio Showroom' ~ sales guy was very quick to point this out to me. I ran my hand over the amplifiers at the end of my audition and I was shocked how cool they were, not what I expected at all, the MC275's were more than what expected... They were something special indeed.
What glorious sounds they made... Amazing tube sweetness with thrilling, outstanding bass as well... I totally agree, the MC275's seem to be very easy maintained - tubed power amplifier to own / opperate.
Are you considering tube rolling someday to 'new old stock' (NOS) tubes someday? GE, Sylvania or Siemons similar to what Joey just did, to improve the tube sound of your MC275 a little bit further?
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Robin, I did, just today in fact, A-B some NOS Tungsol 12AX7's in the driver positions of my MC275, as recommended elsewhere by some tube rollers, and they were better than the McIntosh branded (Chinese) tubes. Clearer, cleaner and more transparent. (Only the Mac KT88 pwr. tubes are Russian BTW, the rest are Chinese).
According to some, these (driver) tubes are the only ones that noticably affect the sound of this amp. They sure did in mine. We'll see about the rest . . . . . someday ;--)
According to some, these (driver) tubes are the only ones that noticably affect the sound of this amp. They sure did in mine. We'll see about the rest . . . . . someday ;--)
Robin
Well-known member
Tube Rolling The MC275 Amplifier...
Neil,
That is very interesting as I had thought they were all Russian tubes. I am glad the NOS tubes improved the over-all sound of the MC275 amplifier.
Neil,
That is very interesting as I had thought they were all Russian tubes. I am glad the NOS tubes improved the over-all sound of the MC275 amplifier.
Robin
Well-known member
I've Added Something New...
Well, I finally made a impressive change to my HT room. I am not a liberty to say at this time (Shades of Joey's toobed pre-amp:devil...
Instead, I want to show you all, as soon as I have my box camera photo's developed and transferred to digital DVD Disc, in a few days. But sufficit-to-say the change involves an significant improvement to my biggest HT investment...
Well, I finally made a impressive change to my HT room. I am not a liberty to say at this time (Shades of Joey's toobed pre-amp:devil
... Instead, I want to show you all, as soon as I have my box camera photo's developed and transferred to digital DVD Disc, in a few days. But sufficit-to-say the change involves an significant improvement to my biggest HT investment...
Robin
Well-known member
"Box Camera" Quaintness...
I planning to pick-up my digital CD and prints later today. Then you'll see... I am being a little bit coy I know...
Dave,
I planning to pick-up my digital CD and prints later today. Then you'll see... I am being a little bit coy I know...
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Robin
Well-known member
I Ran Out Of Room...
Well, it finally happened, and it was inevitable, I ran out of room to store my massive DVD collection of over 1,200 DVD's, in my HT room... I must have my DVD's in the room where I watch them.
My BIG impressive change is ~ I've gone DVD case-less. :cheers:
It was a huge undertaking but I removed all 1200 DVD's from their cases and placed them all in "Slant "D" ring 4" binders ($21.00/Binder). I bought eight binders.
I used "Case LOGIC" ~ ProSleeves - CD Storage Pages (25 pages per box - $21.00/box). Each CD storage page holds eight DVD's, so 25 pages is 200 DVD's. I bought eight boxes of these sleeves. The sleeve pages are made of a patented polypropylene "ProSleeves" - keeps dirt away to prevent scratching of delicate DVD's.
This little project ~ To go case-less required about a week of all my free time to complete. I have to use five large boxes for storage of all the empty DVD cases. I used 'adult briefs' - "Attends" boxes from work, which really worked-out very well. Naturally, I had to carefully label each box to clearly show what cases were in each box i. e., "#'s A - Cin" in the first box, then "Cin - Ga" in the second box and so on...
The DVD's are placed in the binders in alphabetical order and the binders go alphabetically from left to right, top shelf A - P, bottom shelf P - Z.
Now that this little project is completed. I can really see the benefits of no more DVD cases. I used only 18 ProSleeve pages per binder, because any more pages and I just could not easily lift the binder. When a binder is more than 18 pages the DVD's are just too heavy for me to lift comfortably. I don't want to get carpel tunnel of my wrists, that's for sure. This system is soooo much better than DVD case for one thing I can easily reach the binders, were as before, I had to go get my son to reach the DVD cases on the top three shelves and when he wasn't home..., I couldn't watch those DVD's...
I also have room to exspand my collection. I can fit at least six more binders on the two shelves I am currently using.
I made an alphabetized master list of all my DVD's I own on my computer. The list turned out to be 30 pages long. But anyone can thumb through the list and quickly choose a film to watch no sweat...
Check-out the process. I documented it on my trusty "Box Camera"....
Well, it finally happened, and it was inevitable, I ran out of room to store my massive DVD collection of over 1,200 DVD's, in my HT room... I must have my DVD's in the room where I watch them.
My BIG impressive change is ~ I've gone DVD case-less. :cheers: It was a huge undertaking but I removed all 1200 DVD's from their cases and placed them all in "Slant "D" ring 4" binders ($21.00/Binder). I bought eight binders.
I used "Case LOGIC" ~ ProSleeves - CD Storage Pages (25 pages per box - $21.00/box). Each CD storage page holds eight DVD's, so 25 pages is 200 DVD's. I bought eight boxes of these sleeves. The sleeve pages are made of a patented polypropylene "ProSleeves" - keeps dirt away to prevent scratching of delicate DVD's.
This little project ~ To go case-less required about a week of all my free time to complete. I have to use five large boxes for storage of all the empty DVD cases. I used 'adult briefs' - "Attends" boxes from work, which really worked-out very well. Naturally, I had to carefully label each box to clearly show what cases were in each box i. e., "#'s A - Cin" in the first box, then "Cin - Ga" in the second box and so on...
The DVD's are placed in the binders in alphabetical order and the binders go alphabetically from left to right, top shelf A - P, bottom shelf P - Z.
Now that this little project is completed. I can really see the benefits of no more DVD cases. I used only 18 ProSleeve pages per binder, because any more pages and I just could not easily lift the binder. When a binder is more than 18 pages the DVD's are just too heavy for me to lift comfortably. I don't want to get carpel tunnel of my wrists, that's for sure. This system is soooo much better than DVD case for one thing I can easily reach the binders, were as before, I had to go get my son to reach the DVD cases on the top three shelves and when he wasn't home..., I couldn't watch those DVD's...
I also have room to exspand my collection.
I can fit at least six more binders on the two shelves I am currently using. I made an alphabetized master list of all my DVD's I own on my computer. The list turned out to be 30 pages long. But anyone can thumb through the list and quickly choose a film to watch no sweat...
Check-out the process. I documented it on my trusty "Box Camera"....
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Robin
Well-known member
Robin
Well-known member
My DVD Collection...
Besides my small dedicated HT room it self, my DVD collection represents my next largest investment ~ a $24,000.00 software investment i. e.,
1200 DVD's x (An average of $20.00/DVD) = $24K
I have been collecting DVD's since 1999. "The Matrix" was the first DVD I ever purchased.
Besides my small dedicated HT room it self, my DVD collection represents my next largest investment ~ a $24,000.00 software investment i. e.,
1200 DVD's x (An average of $20.00/DVD) = $24K
I have been collecting DVD's since 1999. "The Matrix" was the first DVD I ever purchased.
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