System #503 (CLX Art)

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BigGuy

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GW1800

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So did a couple of things yesterday.
Stirling supplies a speaker layout with measurements to the spike feet and subs for later reference. I just added some dimensions for the rack, amps and QB8. Just wanted to document where everything is physically located. I will be dusting with a swifter which will be a huge plus over trying to clean a carpet floor. However, at some point I will be removing cables to go on the Nordost Vidar (usually at least once a year) and so wanted to make sure I have not moved some components. Also I went with IsoAcoustics footers (the small version) for floor protection for rack, amps, speakers and subs. I must say I like these very much, nicely done! Yesterday I took some clear silicone to all the footers under the speakers to lock them in place.
 

Big Dog RJ

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Attn: GW1800

G'day mate, Greetings from Oz...

Noticed that you've placed the QX4 units to one side of the system... if I'm correct.

In the past, I did the same but to lesser effect. Then I contacted Nordost and had a long chat with one of their techies. Advised that the QX4 units need to be placed either dead centre of the system or in the middle of the rack as a separate component, ideally between two or three components, in order for it to carry out its real magic, which I refer to as voodoo or could be science!

The QX4 is twice as powerful as the QX2, such that it uses 4 QRT elements. In order for it to work optimally, it controls stray magnetic fields both in the horizontal and vertical planes. Therefore, it requires height and depth, including width to operate properly.

I've also tried plugging other components directly into each dedicated QX2 unit, although things slightly improved, it also involved far more power cords... and so now I just stick with one. According to the chap, on a final note he mentioned that if after using several QX4 or QX2 units, and there's very little or no improvement, simply means the system has reached its full potential with either just one or two QX units. Since these are modular it's easy to add any number of units into a given system but the number of power cords doubles... the idea/ key is to use the right amount of units for optimal results. So it's not necessary to go overboard.

After I placed just the one QX4 right in the middle, supported by three Sort Kones, the soundstage is spooky quiet and the tightness on absolute focus is outstanding! Works wonders alongside the QBase8!

Cheers to CLX's and Nordost!
RJ
 

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Attn: GW1800

G'day mate, Greetings from Oz...

Noticed that you've placed the QX4 units to one side of the system... if I'm correct.

In the past, I did the same but to lesser effect. Then I contacted Nordost and had a long chat with one of their techies. Advised that the QX4 units need to be placed either dead centre of the system or in the middle of the rack as a separate component, ideally between two or three components, in order for it to carry out its real magic, which I refer to as voodoo or could be science!

The QX4 is twice as powerful as the QX2, such that it uses 4 QRT elements. In order for it to work optimally, it controls stray magnetic fields both in the horizontal and vertical planes. Therefore, it requires height and depth, including width to operate properly.

I've also tried plugging other components directly into each dedicated QX2 unit, although things slightly improved, it also involved far more power cords... and so now I just stick with one. According to the chap, on a final note he mentioned that if after using several QX4 or QX2 units, and there's very little or no improvement, simply means the system has reached its full potential with either just one or two QX units. Since these are modular it's easy to add any number of units into a given system but the number of power cords doubles... the idea/ key is to use the right amount of units for optimal results. So it's not necessary to go overboard.

After I placed just the one QX4 right in the middle, supported by three Sort Kones, the soundstage is spooky quiet and the tightness on absolute focus is outstanding! Works wonders alongside the QBase8!

Cheers to CLX's and Nordost!
RJ
Hello Down Under!!

Yes big Nordost fan here also and think you are mistaking my two QKore units (6 &1) on the right as QX4's, maybe. Next to them are my two QSources with a total of 8 QPoints. I think you misunderstood the Nordost rep. in that a QX4 or 2 needs to be in the rack as the field only goes up or down between the two end plates. You have yours in the middle of your system but not near any components. Would be best to move it into one of your racks IMHO. What you probably can't see is I do have two QX4's but they are behind the CLX panel and they do in fact make a difference. I have them powered with just a 14 ga. black cord as to use a Nordost cable to just power is not needed. The QPoints are basically the replacement for the now obsolete QX4 and 2 not sure if you know that.

I see you also made a post on the power cord thread and I do have a suggestion for you. But am a bit confused as you said in that thread that you have Odin power loom I see H2 mostly so maybe the picture attached is not the latest. Either way I see you use the QB8 and what I would suggest is to replace the "Root" (which is the power cable from the wall that powers the QB8) with the O2 Nordost power cable. This will have a huge impact on your whole system. I have a O2 Loom and recently had a home demo of the new O2 Gold and it was fantastic and so was the pricing. However what I did do is replace my O2 power cable to the QB8 with the new O2 Gold since of all the cables this had the most impact. At this point I most likely will not do any more Gold as just beyond what I can afford but just updating that one cable was crazy good.
 

Big Dog RJ

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G'day mate,

Ah! Now I understand your set up. Ok that seems like a good layout, as we Aussies say, "good on ya mate!"
To have a system based around CLX's is an achievement. It takes careful planning and thought out component selection, let alone it takes years to put together. At such a high level, to complement it with Odin's cables solutions is most probably the ultimate! Doesn't get any better than that!
I truly admire your system and hats off to you sir!

Yes, understood the placement on your QX4's on top of CLX box... infact I saw that but wasn't sure if it was the QX4 or QX2.

Yes, I get your point on the ideal placement of my QX4, in fact it was one of the Nordost managers who actually set it up for me, as he was very keen to listen to my CLX's and was very impressed after the audition. On earlier installations, I had the preamp plugged into a QX2 and another QX4 as a separate unit. It was very good then I tried separate QX2's on each CLX's and that was really tops. However, after a while I decided on a different route, based on simplicity.

I like to keep things simple, less of everything... less points of connection, less power cords, no crossovers, no subs, and everything connected to just one QBase8 on one AC mains line, which is dedicated and more than adequate for my particular setup.

I guess it's reached its full potential now, as I really cannot justify the extra spend, especially on accessories anything more than 10grand upwards. I think it's more psychological than anything else... although there are minor gains.

The Odin line of cable accessories is truly top notch, without a doubt! However, in Aus pricing this range is nuts! Through the roof pricing for just 1m lengths... forget it! Hence, I've settled on Heimdall 2 on all power cords & interconnects and Tyr2 on speaker cables. At one point, I may finalise on a full Valhalla loom but I first need to check on the wifey to see if the dog house is within sight...
If i keep things civil and not divulge too much, otherwise the wifey will throw me into the dog house!

In time to come, once I can't maintain all my tube gear (there's quite a lot of tubes) I will downside to probably just a pair of refurbed Apogee's, drive them with a CJ tube integrated amp and call it a day!

After doing a special mod on the monoblocks to operate at a higher Class A bias, which fully grips the CLX's really well, plus other mods to the rest of the CJ gear, it started to get bit costly in terms of tube replacements. So, at this stage, what the system delivers is truly well and above what I had hoped for, at a high level of pristine clarity and transparency, I am enjoying it 110%! So, good enough, is good enough!

Thanks for the advice though, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof! RJ
 
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Big Dog RJ

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Attn: GW1800

Just repositioned the QX4 into the right side rack, under the CJ preamp. It certainly did something quite different! I wouldn't really say better but different, such that the 3D affect in the centre is now even more profound. I could reach out and touch the performers, plus now I could reach out and hug them! Although it was very good before, there seems to be something in the 3 dimensional focus and centre pick up, especially on midrange, vocals piano etc.

So thanks for that! Learned something new again. I spoke to the Nordost rep this arvo, he's coming round on Saturday with two QX2 units, which I would now like to try out again on each of the CLX's. If all goes well, I'll probably keep them, and as you mentioned it's not a huge deal in spending high quality on the connecting power cords that I would require for each additional QX2. So that's a very good thing.

Cheers and thanks once again.
Woof! RJ
 

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Attn: GW1800

Just repositioned the QX4 into the right side rack, under the CJ preamp. It certainly did something quite different! I wouldn't really say better but different, such that the 3D affect in the centre is now even more profound. I could reach out and touch the performers, plus now I could reach out and hug them! Although it was very good before, there seems to be something in the 3 dimensional focus and centre pick up, especially on midrange, vocals piano etc.

So thanks for that! Learned something new again. I spoke to the Nordost rep this arvo, he's coming round on Saturday with two QX2 units, which I would now like to try out again on each of the CLX's. If all goes well, I'll probably keep them, and as you mentioned it's not a huge deal in spending high quality on the connecting power cords that I would require for each additional QX2. So that's a very good thing.

Cheers and thanks once again.
Woof! RJ
Glad to hear RJ. Wonder if your dealer has any QX4’s left to test with the QX2’s on the speakers would be a good way to tell the difference. However the QX’s have been discontinued for over a year do not sure he has them. another thing to try is to put weight on the electronic shelf of the CLX. I was told at shows they used to use sand bags. I lasered out a piece of SS 1/2” thick that covers the top of the box. Each one weighs like 30#’s. That helped a lot also.
0C84FB3E-F316-4F13-8863-3768FCFFE7A4.jpeg
 

Big Dog RJ

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Oh, that's looks interesting 🤔 Must look into that. I think he has a few QX2's floating around within his other gear in the showroom... so I may just get whatever he has left. Since they were selling off old stock, due to rise in prices no one was really buying... so these QX units have been sitting there since 2018/19.

I'll see how it goes, worth a shot.
Cheers, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
 

BigGuy

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Glad to hear RJ. Wonder if your dealer has any QX4’s left to test with the QX2’s on the speakers would be a good way to tell the difference. However the QX’s have been discontinued for over a year do not sure he has them. another thing to try is to put weight on the electronic shelf of the CLX. I was told at shows they used to use sand bags. I lasered out a piece of SS 1/2” thick that covers the top of the box. Each one weighs like 30#’s. That helped a lot also.
View attachment 22791
What is the expected benefit of the weight placed on the electronic shelf of the CLX? Is it mass loading? Dampening of the electronics compartment?
 

GW1800

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What is the expected benefit of the weight placed on the electronic shelf of the CLX? Is it mass loading? Dampening of the electronics compartment?
Like I said at audio shows they added sand bags so they did it for a reason. On my end the weight I added I felt the speaker was just physically more solid when you grabbed the top and tried to move it. Also the bass was better in my opinion. It’s easy to test with something you have laying around and hear for yourself. I just did a Stainless Steel piece since it’s not magnetic and you can’t even tell it on there from the front. I also hit some cold blacken chemical for SS to turn it black but can also paint. I own a sheet metal company so to laser 1/2” SS was no issue for me but you probably can find someone in your area if your test is to your liking
 

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Hoping either Mike or RJ can explain exactly what these QX4/2 units are and do. I 'thought' they would be either power distribution or grounding devices but couldn't find either on the Nordost website to get a better understanding (which makes sense once Mike said they were discontinued). Anyway, I'd love to know what these are, and why moving them from one position to another in your system would make a difference... :unsure:

Confused! 😕
 

Big Dog RJ

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Just a little background about Nordost in Aus:
The Nordost QX units were introduced to the Aus market around 2006/07. They had a few selected dealers carrying these power accessories that weren't affordable as regular gear, they were quite pricey. Compared to the US market it's over double the price, and still is pretty much the same today. Although dollar value has changed between the $USD & $AUD, pricing of such gear in Aus is dam expensive, and only a handful of people can afford such items.

From that time onwards, Nordost introduced single Q-Kore units that were slightly more affordable, and many started buying these single units for their systems. At the same time the larger QX units were still being sold, and new power accessories were offered as well, such as the ones GW1800 has installed in his CLX- Bricasti system...

The Nodost distribution/ importer for Aus changed hands and the new importer raised their prices big time! So now we have only a few dealers offering the full range of Nordost and just one or two offering the Supreme Reference series, which is the Odin line.

Nordost used to explain what the QX units do and what QRT is all about on their website and technical papers... perhaps they don't publish this information any more, for certain reasons.

Anyway, in summary this is what these QX units do:
It's based on QRT- Quantum Resonant Technology.
Magnetic field stabilisers and proper grounding systems. Each QX unit has several QRT units inside: in the QX2 has 2 and the QX4 has 4, making it twice as powerful as a single QX2. Then there are the Q-Kore units, the Q Base power boards, and other various types of Q units for grounding purposes, all revolving around the QRT design & tech.

What they do is offer a very high level of magnetic field control and stabilisation. When power amps and preamps are on, they all create certain magnetic fields through their trannys (transformers), this can affect detail sound and clarity plus definition in tonality.
If proper grounding is not addressed, it can also lead to RFI & EMI stray fields creeping into the system through power cords and power boards... all affecting tonality and adding unwanted noise.

What these QX units do is they control these stray fields with the use of QRT systems, they zero in on them and tighten the fields, so as to not let them stray in space...
It's a bit difficult to explain but I'll simplify: so when listening critically, sometimes you can see or hear certain waves floating in circles, sort of spherical in shape wandering off around the speakers, in the middle and hovering around the corners... when the QX units are engaged, all of that tightens in a blink of an eye and centres everything with full focus, clarity, definition and full 3D. Like a giant magnet attracting all the stray metal objects floating into the centre.

When these QX units or any Q unit is switched on, you can experience this affect immediately! There's no denying it, and it works! Usually when it does, people are in awe... and when it's off, you can certainly tell the difference.

Overall, with the Q units on or off, the music is still good, there's nothing wrong in the presentation or anything lacking. However, with any of the QX, Q-Kore and Qbase units installed into the system, the music is unbelievable! These power accessories can enhance any high quality system, and their unique modular design makes it possible to install any number of units in any location. You can use just one if you like, and you can really go nuts and use multiple units for each component in the system, which will bring out the highest level of detail from that particular component.

Whatever number of units you use at any given time, will enhance the overall performance of your system. After trying these items out and you believe that it didn't make a difference then that's OK. Means that your system has reached its full potential and there's no use of such gear.
This particular group of people is virtually non-existent simply because everyone who has tried any of these units has always keeps them in their systems. They've never been returned!

The team at Nordost go to great lengths to ensure that these accessories are contributing positively in any high quality system, and when installed properly and effectively positioned, it's an awe-inspiring experience.

The QX units work both in the horizontal and vertical planes, that's why GW1800 recommended that I place it in one of the racks close to components, so that it works more effectively. Earlier I had the QX4 placed out in the middle, although it was quite good, it didn't have the full affect/ magic that it does now. Even the Nordost manual suggests exactly that.

The rep is coming over next Saturday to set up two more units for each of the CLX's, I have a feeling this is going to be fantastic! Might as well have them installed and close the deal.

That's just my 50cts worth of Nordost and it's accessories, I'm sure GW1800 will have more to contribute. Apart from these power accessories, their cables are a whole other level. Some of which are superb!!! Truly in a class of their own. A must have or must try in any high quality set up, and a well deserved system altogether.

*Note* these accessories from Nordost are power accessories and grounding systems, that allow more of the recordings to be experienced in terms of clarity, definition, transparency, resolution, detail and soundstage depth. They do not alter the AC mains in any way, and you can switch these units off, whiles the music is still playing and note down differences... therefore they are added into the system as modular units and power up only if the user decides to switch them on. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers to Nordost! "Making the connection"
RJ
 

BDH55

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Just a little background about Nordost in Aus:
The Nordost QX units were introduced to the Aus market around 2006/07. They had a few selected dealers carrying these power accessories that weren't affordable as regular gear, they were quite pricey. Compared to the US market it's over double the price, and still is pretty much the same today. Although dollar value has changed between the $USD & $AUD, pricing of such gear in Aus is dam expensive, and only a handful of people can afford such items.

From that time onwards, Nordost introduced single Q-Kore units that were slightly more affordable, and many started buying these single units for their systems. At the same time the larger QX units were still being sold, and new power accessories were offered as well, such as the ones GW1800 has installed in his CLX- Bricasti system...

The Nodost distribution/ importer for Aus changed hands and the new importer raised their prices big time! So now we have only a few dealers offering the full range of Nordost and just one or two offering the Supreme Reference series, which is the Odin line.

Nordost used to explain what the QX units do and what QRT is all about on their website and technical papers... perhaps they don't publish this information any more, for certain reasons.

Anyway, in summary this is what these QX units do:
It's based on QRT- Quantum Resonant Technology.
Magnetic field stabilisers and proper grounding systems. Each QX unit has several QRT units inside: in the QX2 has 2 and the QX4 has 4, making it twice as powerful as a single QX2. Then there are the Q-Kore units, the Q Base power boards, and other various types of Q units for grounding purposes, all revolving around the QRT design & tech.

What they do is offer a very high level of magnetic field control and stabilisation. When power amps and preamps are on, they all create certain magnetic fields through their trannys (transformers), this can affect detail sound and clarity plus definition in tonality.
If proper grounding is not addressed, it can also lead to RFI & EMI stray fields creeping into the system through power cords and power boards... all affecting tonality and adding unwanted noise.

What these QX units do is they control these stray fields with the use of QRT systems, they zero in on them and tighten the fields, so as to not let them stray in space...
It's a bit difficult to explain but I'll simplify: so when listening critically, sometimes you can see or hear certain waves floating in circles, sort of spherical in shape wandering off around the speakers, in the middle and hovering around the corners... when the QX units are engaged, all of that tightens in a blink of an eye and centres everything with full focus, clarity, definition and full 3D. Like a giant magnet attracting all the stray metal objects floating into the centre.

When these QX units or any Q unit is switched on, you can experience this affect immediately! There's no denying it, and it works! Usually when it does, people are in awe... and when it's off, you can certainly tell the difference.

Overall, with the Q units on or off, the music is still good, there's nothing wrong in the presentation or anything lacking. However, with any of the QX, Q-Kore and Qbase units installed into the system, the music is unbelievable! These power accessories can enhance any high quality system, and their unique modular design makes it possible to install any number of units in any location. You can use just one if you like, and you can really go nuts and use multiple units for each component in the system, which will bring out the highest level of detail from that particular component.

Whatever number of units you use at any given time, will enhance the overall performance of your system. After trying these items out and you believe that it didn't make a difference then that's OK. Means that your system has reached its full potential and there's no use of such gear.
This particular group of people is virtually non-existent simply because everyone who has tried any of these units has always keeps them in their systems. They've never been returned!

The team at Nordost go to great lengths to ensure that these accessories are contributing positively in any high quality system, and when installed properly and effectively positioned, it's an awe-inspiring experience.

The QX units work both in the horizontal and vertical planes, that's why GW1800 recommended that I place it in one of the racks close to components, so that it works more effectively. Earlier I had the QX4 placed out in the middle, although it was quite good, it didn't have the full affect/ magic that it does now. Even the Nordost manual suggests exactly that.

The rep is coming over next Saturday to set up two more units for each of the CLX's, I have a feeling this is going to be fantastic! Might as well have them installed and close the deal.

That's just my 50cts worth of Nordost and it's accessories, I'm sure GW1800 will have more to contribute. Apart from these power accessories, their cables are a whole other level. Some of which are superb!!! Truly in a class of their own. A must have or must try in any high quality set up, and a well deserved system altogether.

*Note* these accessories from Nordost are power accessories and grounding systems, that allow more of the recordings to be experienced in terms of clarity, definition, transparency, resolution, detail and soundstage depth. They do not alter the AC mains in any way, and you can switch these units off, whiles the music is still playing and note down differences... therefore they are added into the system as modular units and power up only if the user decides to switch them on. Hope that makes sense.

Cheers to Nordost! "Making the connection"
RJ
RJ, thx for the very thorough explanation! I think I have an understanding now around 'what' these devices are doing although I'm not sure I understand 'how' they actually work. However, no worries... you mentioned they are very expensive and previously Mike mentioned they are discontinued, so probably not something I would chase down to try anyway (even the current models).

As for cables, I know a lot of people up here swear by Nordost cables and from everything I've ever heard about them, I'm sure they are fantastic. Since I'm in the middle of making some equipment changes as well as moving physical equipment, I am replacing some of my current Cardas cabling mostly due to needing longer cables. [email protected] was strongly encouraging me to at least try some of the Nordost cables but we ran into problems with me needing a pretty long run that wasn't readily available so I went ahead with the cables that I have known and upgraded my Cardas. Also, I was really surprised that the Nordost cables we were considering were almost three times the price of the Cardas! I guess the bottom line is assuming I could hear a significant difference with the Nordost cables, I just wasn't ready to re-cable my entire system with Nordost. That's probably where I would stand on the QRP products as well (although the grounding products look interesting and do seem to make a lot of sense).

Thx again for all the info. Your posts are always very helpful... ;)
 

Big Dog RJ

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Yes, pricing has always been the bottom decision factor for me as well, especially on Nordost gear. Sometimes I think most of this stuff is plain voodoo and not science... but when I do try them out in a particular installation, oh am I impressed! (Eyes popping out & tongue hanging out impressed)

I had a similar experience with the Tyr2 & Valhalla cables that I eventually settled for, after using the Frey2. Initially, I thought they were ridiculous, the difference was not small, somewhere in the region of 14-15 grand just for 2m lengths. I then installed them at home and kept them for a few months. My trusted dealer already knew that I was going to keep them, and so about a month later, I settled the remaining amount. Of course, he was delighted, and I was not so... due to the cost... until I returned home, and have been using them since the beginning of this year. So I settled for Tyr2 and returned the Valhalla's (far too pricey for my humble finances...) but perhaps one day.

I would say though, it's definitely NOT required to engage in this kind of spend in order to fully "enjoy" music. It is also very hard for me to justify certain levels of pricing with such gear, especially knowing that there are other priorities in life, other than cables & accessories! I've had my fair share of fingers burned, hard work, job layoffs & shutdowns, plus have continuously worked to keep the fires burning, and the wifey (bless her soul) has always been my No.1 support 110% all the way! I owe everything to her, there's no denying it. Every piece of gear that I have actually has a story behind it and how it came to be placed on the rack. We both share the hard work, pain, and joy of owning that piece of equipment, and that's the very reason why we both love the passion for quality music.

She understands my inner passion for it and where it stems from, going way back to when my mum was a well-known jazz piano teacher. So that type of high quality has always been around in one form or the other. Whether it was live jazz in our own lounge room or quality recorded music during my younger years... So now, when I evaluate a piece of gear or any accessories for that matter, it has to be "believable" and not just some fancy gizmo. it has to have three critical things that meet my benchmark standards:
1. Must be neutral as possible and not alter the original source.
2. Must be transparent as possible, in order for more of the music to flow in an enhanced manner.
3. Must be totally engaing and immersive.

If any of the above three aspects are missing, I walk away... once they are fulfilled then I take into consideration the cost and later cry about it...!
There is a limit that I do have, and will stop at one point but when these new things are experienced, it's so dam hard not to be tempted! Must have a strong will.

Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ
 

GW1800

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RJ wow very good explanation!!! The QX’s are discontinued but still very much helpful in a system if there are any left. The only other thing I would say is the QX’s have been replaced with the QPoints. They are smaller but supposed to be even better. They come with a wall wart which is OK but Nordost has a linear power supply called QSource. I have a total of 8 QPoints. Both my DAC and Pre are dual mono so I have one under each mono side then one each under the mono amps and one under each of the two boxes of my Aurender N30. Plus one QX4 on the electronic box if each CLX. Nordost also came out with passive grounding called QKore works great highly recommended
 

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Yes thanks. In fact I've not tried these new Q units from Nordost as yet... hope to do so in a few months. I did audition them at the dealers' place when they were introducing these new gadgets from Nordost. Although there was quite a significant improvement, the system they installed were dynamic driver types from Vandersteen and the KEF Blades. Since they weren't using Stats of any kind, I really wanted to home trial these before deciding.

They were quite low on stock due to our covid restrictions... but now they're back in order, so I'll look into these once again when he comes over next weekend. Should be an interesting journey!
Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes !
RJ
 
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