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System #503 (CLX Art)

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GW1800

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Proper Grounding

So for the past week and a half I have been working with more Entreq boxes as demo's. I added two Sliver Tellus Minimus once each to the negative to the amp speaker terminal and then attached RCA to the N10 and M1 to my Silver Tellus that already had the Nordost QB8 ground lug attached too. I really liked what it did. My system was already real dark so no real change there but the attack of the notes was improved and the presence of more air around the whole sound was noticeable. The thing that made the testing hard is Entreq takes about a day to settle in and about the same time once disconnected. So AB is real hard and time consuming. Also obviously the placement of the Entreq boxes is only temporary as the cables I would of needed needed to be much longer.

Next up is the new Nordost QKore that was announced at Munich 2017. I hopefully should have a demo set here later this week to test out. Looking forward to seeing what it does. One nice thing is that its active right away there is no delay according to the manufactuer.
 

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GW1800

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Hi Michael:
I've read a few posting from members recommending absorbing panels behind ML speakers. I see that you're also doing this. I've placed my old Echo Buster absorbing panels on a stool behind my Summit speakers and found that the midrange is more detailed and focused. Your endorsement of the Entreq is timely as my audio dealer is bringing them in and I plan to try them in my system. The photo below shows the panel and a brass weight sitting on top of the speaker panel. I have plans to purchase additional brass weights to sit on top of the woofer base.
Sorry for the late reply but I see that you are trying some of the identical tweaks that I have been playing with recently and in the past.
1. Weight on your speaker. I indeed do know that adding some weight to the speaker does definitely help the sound that comes from the speakers. The soundstage becomes more stable and I think in my case the bass is tighter. I’m a little concerned about the weight you have on the panel falling on someone. You mention that you were going to get more and place them on the enclosure. Did you do that and what was the effect? I have added a 30# weight to my CLX – see picture - for quite some time.
2. Grounding – I added some info on my original post dated 6-7 that started this thread discussing grounding. I have had a Entreq box for years and liked it very much but have recently replaced it with the new Nordost QKore 6 box. I find it more effective and once hooked up the effect is instant unlike the Entreq box.
3. Panels - I have recently been working on this also. Originally I did some behind the speakers and first reflection. These made a world of difference. Recently I got some loaner panels and was testing rear wall. I found that particularly for bass reflections it helped a ton. I currently in the process of adding them permanently.


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GW1800

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How do you like your LG OLED?

Seriously considering buying one.

Gordon
Gordon - I like it a lot! I had a Pioneer Elite plasma 60" previously and I waited all through the LED different versions for a true OLED panel. A couple of times I got tired of waiting and almost got something else but now glad I waited it out for the real thing. I would of preferred a Pioneer but that is only available in Europe last I looked and at twice the price. Never have been a LG fan more Samsung or Pioneer but really like this one. I actually had it calibrated by BB but found I like the standard settings better. Mine is in a basement so bright light is not an issue not saying its a problem just letting you know in a dark room it has a spooky real picture. I got mine in Aug. of last year when the price changed to $3,500 down from 4k at Xmas. I have not looked lately but probably even less now.
 

GW1800

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How's the LG picture quality compared to your Pioneer Elite plasma?
Gordon. Well one thing I really liked about the Kuro was the deep blacks however as good as they were the LG takes blacks to a whole new level. Color wise is better but the Pioneer was pretty good. Also the picture was also very clear but the upscale of the LG to 4K is quite good. Also check with Shawn last I heard he had a couple to sell that he had in stock. The gat was a few weeks ago so not sure if he still has any left.
 

Timobi

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Love the way you have it all set up Michael. So nice. Clean and simple but truly elegant. Very nice. Absolutely state of the art system. Truly can't imagine any thing you could add to improve it. I know you are doing some acoustic treatment. But the components, speakers, subs, connections. All first rate. :bowdown:
 

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Hey Everyone. Wanted to make a new post regarding this System. By joining this forum and corresponding with other Martin Logan owners has been truly a revelation for me and an eye opening one as well.

Started to chat with GL1800 (Mike) here on the forum. He had some similar components as mine as did his son. And he went through some gear upgrades that pricked my interest.

So, after a few phone calls to Mike-then he introduced me to Shawn (DaVinci Media-Forum sponsor) I booked a flight to Milwaukee to listen to the 15a’s AND Mike’s CLX Art speakers.

I’ll try and keep the rhetoric to a minimum but will gladly say that I’ve never heard an audio system like Mikes. Its by far the best 2 channel i’ve heard in my 54 years of life :)

Mike will be the first one to tell you this didn’t happen overnight and besides the expenses; it took some real planning on Mike’s part.

What Mike has done with his room is beyond reproach. Some of us won’t be able to go to that level. Actually I won’t be able to BUT what I learned is that even some ‘small’ tweaks can make significant sonic improvements. Its like this: 15/20% here…and there & you have made upticks in the entire Audio chain. Those tweaks are indeed audible.

The CLX Art speakers are AMAZING. I flew up from North Louisiana to hear these. They just don’t get the love they deserve being an older entry in the lineup. AND , they really do require a sub or 2. No way around that. So that adds to the cost BUT gosh, the result-paired with the right power and front end will produce YOU ARE THERE IN THE STUDIO EXPERIENCE.

Mike has dual 212 ML subs. To be blunt, he has the best bass I’ve EVER heard. Ever. I am a bass freak. But hate bloated bass. Mike has his subs dialed in so good its scary. I knew the subs were highly rated but was not sure. Wow. Nothing like bad bass to take away from the sound. Of course Mike worked hard on placement and the wonderful ML Arc Software. Its perfect. If Martin Logan were smart, they would send potential customers to hear Mike’s setup to see what the payoff really is. Best bass and bess bass integration I’ve ever heard. I have a pretty rich audio background as well but I was blown away.

We each shared a playlist and those songs I am very familiar with. I’ve never heard them like this. Let me say this. My gear is no slouch. I own the 13a’s. Paired the McIntosh MC601 mono amps; the McIntosh combo C1100 tube and D1100 digital preamps. So yeah, pretty dang special.

We listened to music all day. It was a joy & an eye and ear opening experience. Mike has acoustic panels and treatments to make his CLX and other gear truly shine. In football terms, Its like he gave his QB, the best Offensive linemen and receivers he could. That makes the QB better. Same with his room. The detailed thought process of the acoustic treatments and placement was something I’ve just read about but never really experienced. I can say IT WORKS.

Mike has the awesome Bricasti M28 amps & the wonderful Bricasti M12. The Aurender N10 AND a special hard drive to the M12. Not sure exactly the way it works but dang it was GREAT. I arrived being super negative of online streaming. Thinking there’s no way that can sound good. Bigtime doubter. But I can tell you that Tidal Masters were every bit as good as playing the same track on the Aurender N10 drive. There are so many albums to choose from on Tidal and it gives you the choices to select the best master. But I would have never imagined that Tidal could be so convincing and crisp. And lets face it, Martin Logans are SO revealing and not kind to music that is recorded bad. :) They take no prisoners. But besides Mikes bass, Tidal and its integration with the Bricasti and the Aurender was truly special. It was so good that on my flight home I was re-thinking if I wanted to keep my vinyl.


I know I am going to leave something out. Yeah Mike has a lot of $$ invested but the good thing is one doesn’t have to go the level of that to achieve better sound. Mike will tell you that each and every level of tweaks has brought the sound to a better level. Even the most affordable tweak will make the overall team play better. Mike upgraded his power cables and the grounding…the noise floor was non-existent. I mean DEAD quiet.

So I had lots of takeaways from my trip. One can just buy nice gear like we all have and plug and play…but you’re not getting anywhere near what the system can achieve. I left with motivation to build up my gear in ways that I kept putting off. Well I admit the first thing I am doing is buying a pair of CLX Art speakers from Shawn -DaVinci Media! I love my 13’s but the CLX transported me to another audio plane. Then will add the subs.

Let me say something else. Both Mike and Shawn were some of the nicest people I’ve ever met. Seriously, we really connected and I spent a couple of days there. In a way, Mike & Shawn felt like family. I really mean that. I was treated pretty special and it was genuine. We even stayed late one night and watched the 4K version of John Wick 2 on Mikes LG and ML atmos setup! Thats a post for another day. His son joined us and got some wonderful pizza. BTW, Mike’s Scotch put hair on me in places I didn’t have any! ;) Wow.

Seriously, if you are in the market for Martin Logan and really, any gear. You owe it to yourself to talk to Shawn. He is super honest…he’ll even talk you out of buying! But he is honest; super nice and maybe most important, he knows what he is doing. How many of us have had salesman who really didn’t know the product. Shawn knows it. Knows the potentials..and knows the weaknesses. I wish I would have met Shawn and Mike earlier….We all want a good deal and try to get the best price we can. But I will tell you from experience, truly getting sound advice and proper setup can be a challenge. But from guys like Shawn and Mike who have both owned Martin Logans; and who have spent years learning from this hobby is worth SO MUCH. The way I look it is why not learn from those who really know how to integrate these speakers. My short time with Shawn and Mike helped me in ways I never expected.

This system left an impression on me that I will not forget. And has motivated me to try my best to get the sound that Mike has worked so hard to achieve.

Well done Mike. Well done Shawn.

See you guys soon.
Tim
 
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GW1800

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Mike has dual 212 ML subs. To be blunt, he has the best bass I’ve EVER heard. Ever. I am a bass freak. But hate bloated bass. Mike has his subs dialed in so good its scary. I knew the subs were highly rated but was not sure. Wow. Nothing like bad bass to take away from the sound. Of course Mike worked hard on placement and the wonderful ML Arc Software. Its perfect. If Martin Logan were smart, they would send potential customers to hear Mike’s setup to see what the payoff really is. Best bass and best bass integration I’ve ever heard. I have a pretty rich audio background as well but I was blown away.



We listened to music all day. It was a joy & an eye and ear opening experience. Mike has acoustic panels and treatments to make his CLX and other gear truly shine. In football terms, Its like he gave his QB, the best Offensive linemen and receivers he could. That makes the QB better. Same with his room. The detailed thought process of the acoustic treatments and placement was something I’ve just read about but never really experienced. I can say IT WORKS.
Thanks Tim for all your kind comments! Its always nice to get first hand comments from another person who is passionate about 2 channel music.

Before I get into some additional comments I just want to say from my count there have been 179 people that looked at this post yet no comments. There was plenty here to comment on either positive or negative as long as its constructive right? Isn't the forum for this type of communication??

Concerning Tim's bass comments - if the bass is not right it just throws the whole sound off - either too much or too little is so true but it was a journey for me. My story is what I call bass creep for the lack of a better term.

I started with Summit X's with no subs. At first they sounded OK. This was my most recent good system and first electrostatic's so total sound was so good the bass took awhile to feel it needed help. So I added two Descent i's and that really helped. However over time no matter how I adjusted them the bass was not right in my opinion. Still way better but lacking. I then made the move to the CLX's and 212's all at once. Shawn told me how great the PBK worked and without hesitation said that has got to be the answer. Well I got to tell you that made a HUGE difference in the bass performance! Yet then again over time I became to hear things that were much more minor yet still an issue. I knew I had some good equipment and probably one of the best subs to integrate not only to the speakers but to my room so the only thing left was acoustical panels.

As Tim has commented on room treatments they certainly have made the difference between good bass and great bass. Let me also say that the whole sound got better but in particular, it seemed at least for my room, to impact the bass the most. I can't say enough about treating your room. In my case I did it more by ear and not real scientifically as others so more then likely more can be squeezed out. My ears have served me well yet who knows what the future will bring. For those that can add to your room some treatments I would do that next before purchasing any more equipment or cables its that big of a change.
 
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Timobi

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Yeah I would have thought there'd be more comments too. This is a good place for feedback and for learning from members. Its good to see back and forth responses. Believe it or not, its so helpful to read other's thread contributions.

Mike has good ears and like he said, sometimes you gotta go with that and let your ears be the judge. A computer graph can tell you how its supposed to be based on x's and o's BUT sometimes let your ears be the real judge. I'm experiencing that myself with DACS.

Yeah I am selling my new 13a's and buying the CLX Art from Shawn. But room treatment is next. SO important. Wasn't really a believer until I heard firsthand what room treatments can do.
 

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Mike, being at your house and listening to your wonderful system inspired me! Tomorrow is THE day! CLX art & dual 212 subs will be arriving. :)

Thank you for allowing me to invade your home and spend the day listening. You have the best 2 channel setup I've ever heard.

Thank you!
 

GW1800

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Mike, being at your house and listening to your wonderful system inspired me! Tomorrow is THE day! CLX art & dual 212 subs will be arriving. :)

Thank you for allowing me to invade your home and spend the day listening. You have the best 2 channel setup I've ever heard.

Thank you!
Tim thanks for you kind words. I’m also happy for you getting all the new stuff so you can connect your great electronics too and have a working system again. I think it’s been about 2 months without a 2 channel system I’m sure you are real excited for tomorrow. As you get going please share pictures and comments so all can enjoy you new system !
 

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Love this thread. My obsession started when I interviewed for a home theater installation job with Shawn at Davinci media about 15 years ago! His old demo room was a converted attic space that blew me away. I was able to have considerable chair time with all his amazing equipment. Great guy to work for and picked up most of my system from his demos and trade ins. I am considering the 210 and after what I was reading here I think it would be an excellent move. Beautiful system.
 

GW1800

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Love this thread. My obsession started when I interviewed for a home theater installation job with Shawn at Davinci media about 15 years ago! His old demo room was a converted attic space that blew me away. I was able to have considerable chair time with all his amazing equipment. Great guy to work for and picked up most of my system from his demos and trade ins. I am considering the 210 and after what I was reading here I think it would be an excellent move. Beautiful system.
Thanks for your comments.

Just want to mention my son has a 210 upstairs with the new Kef LS50 wireless and it works great. He had the 210 downstairs with his main media system with the 13a's and my old Stage X center. Over Xmas he got the 212 for the downstairs and moved the 210 upstairs. In both places it is a single sub. The comment I would like to make is the 212 for the price difference is a real big step up in sound output. I never really saw the two side by side but the 212 makes the 210 look tiny. Also I was very familiar with his downstairs system with the 210 and could not believe the HUGH difference the 212 made for his set up. With that said the 212 would be way to massive in appearance upstairs and for the size of room also. Not sure your situation but if the size is not an issue and only purchasing one sub I would recommend the 212.
 

tsmooth

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I forgot to mention I live in Waukesha, appreciate a good scotch, and love dedicated listening in amazing systems :)
 

GW1800

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Just want to pass on a little tweak that I used on my subs. In the latest TAS there was listed within a sub review a way to set the phase correctly. This setting has always been a mystery for me. I had it set at zero as suggested in the manual but was not sure why. Anyway I found out the zero setting had some assumptions which were not right for my setup. Anyway in the article it mentioned to switch the terminals on the speakers and play a tone around the crossover frequency. I contacted CS and got a wav file. I played it and listened for the least bass. I did it myself at the sub and at my listening spot with a helper and found it quite easy to tell. Ended up at 180 degrees. The bass was good before but so much better now it’s tighter and quicker. Anyway I now know for sure it’s right.
 

Timobi

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Mike looks SO good! Its been a fun journey getting to be a part of the past 10 months or so with you...and to see & hear the updates. Excellent!

You've done A LOT since the big visit up there in October 2016.
 
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