System #238 (Renaissance ESL 15A, Focus ESL C18, Script I, Motion 35XT, Motion 4i)

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BDH55

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Just added a new set of seats. Got tired of sitting on the hump in the middle of my old loveseat to listen to albums so I'd be in the sweat spot. LOL Added a single row of 3 - Seatcraft Diamanté's with power recline and headrest. Did not purchase the Powershaker amplifier just yet but the shakers are in the seats. For now the SVS shakes the seats just enough for my wife and I. LOL
Jason, your room (and especially, your wiring) just amazes me! Sure wish you were in the neighborhood, as I'd love to drop by for well... I guess a few days! :ROFLMAO: Also, glad to hear that I am not the only one that has to sit on the 'loveseat hump'! We've currently got two choices... either the loveseat with the hump, or... two recliners with a narrow table in between them (we alternate them about twice a year). Neither are very comfortable for my solo two channel listening...

Please keep posting your photos as you are giving me more ideas to support our economy! I suppose I could share a photo of my behind the scenes wiring, but I don't know if it is that interesting. I do think it's likely that I will be updating my photos relatively soon though... new gear alert!!! 🙄
 

JLasher22443

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Jason, your room (and especially, your wiring) just amazes me! Sure wish you were in the neighborhood, as I'd love to drop by for well... I guess a few days! :ROFLMAO: Also, glad to hear that I am not the only one that has to sit on the 'loveseat hump'! We've currently got two choices... either the loveseat with the hump, or... two recliners with a narrow table in between them (we alternate them about twice a year). Neither are very comfortable for my solo two channel listening...

Please keep posting your photos as you are giving me more ideas to support our economy! I suppose I could share a photo of my behind the scenes wiring, but I don't know if it is that interesting. I do think it's likely that I will be updating my photos relatively soon though... new gear alert!!! 🙄
LOL at the hump. Thanks for the compliments. Well if you are ever in the neighborhood you are more than welcome to stop by for a listen. I'll be keeping my eyes on your setup for the update. Love new Gear! LOL
 

JLasher22443

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Little Update in the room. Awhile back I worked with GIK Acoustics to add more room treatments for first reflection and rear diffusion and forgot to post updated photos. Now I need to set aside some time to redo ARC.

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JLasher22443

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Nice, good to see additional treatments.

What are the units just behind the front speakers?
Those are the GIK Acoustic Evolution PolyFusor – Sound Diffuser / Absorber Combination. John from GIK Recommended that for directly behind the speakers. Those have been in for awhile but hard to see in photos.

I just finished the ceiling and the two bass traps on the beam this weekend. When I tested it with a buddy of mine we both can tell a major difference. Just walking and talking in between the speakers and couch sounds different. The biggest thing when listening to music now is the bass is just there and then its gone. Before it would rattle the roof and windows on some really deep bass movie scenes. And now the music is almost surrounding me with some songs and in surround I can hear things clearer beside me and behind me. Not sure how adding those did that but its crazy to me. LOL

So normally we test with Radiohead - The National Anthem as are first song whenever I make a change in the room. I'll go in and test first with him outside of the room. Then he tries it out. When that song starts at about 10 seconds in I literally looked up and around like wow I'm surrounded. When my buddy got in I stayed to watch his reaction and he did the same. I started laughing and was like I did the same thing.

I've reached out to GIK again for more advice on where else I can add more panels just to see how much it improves the sound quality of the room.
 

JonFo

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Those are the GIK Acoustic Evolution PolyFusor – Sound Diffuser / Absorber Combination.
The absorption component should help mitigate dipole cancellation in the lower frequencies of the panel, but the diffusion, while, not totally reflecting back through the panel, is not dampened, so it's back in the room as delayed and dispersed sounds coming from surfaces well away from the panel. That will decrease localization (sometimes a good thing in 2Ch) and have plenty of comb-filtering effects.

For a multichannel setup, I've found that broadband absorption (even across the freq. range of the panel) significantly increases soundstage resolution on multichannel and immersive audio.
 

JonFo

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I just finished the ceiling and the two bass traps on the beam this weekend. When I tested it with a buddy of mine we both can tell a major difference.
Nice, the vertical room modes can play a significant role in room resonances. If you have any REW measurements, the waterfall plots reveal the dramatic changes that you describe.

A well-tamed room will have all energy down to 20Hz decay in under 300ms, the quicker, the better.

And there is probably more that can be done, it's amazing how much treatment a room needs to reach its full potential.
 

JLasher22443

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Nice, the vertical room modes can play a significant role in room resonances. If you have any REW measurements, the waterfall plots reveal the dramatic changes that you describe.

A well-tamed room will have all energy down to 20Hz decay in under 300ms, the quicker, the better.

And there is probably more that can be done, it's amazing how much treatment a room needs to reach its full potential.
Where else would you add panels?
 

JonFo

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Where else would you add panels?
I'd want to look at some REW files from several measurements spaced a for or so apart centered on the MLP, with one of them being ear-level at MLP.

You already have a decent amount, so returns might be diminishing from here on out.

But I admit to being skeptical of the units just behind the mains. They might be ok for 2ch, but in a multichannel rig, maybe not.
Again, seeing some measurements would help sort that out.
 

JLasher22443

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I'd want to look at some REW files from several measurements spaced a for or so apart centered on the MLP, with one of them being ear-level at MLP.

You already have a decent amount, so returns might be diminishing from here on out.

But I admit to being skeptical of the units just behind the mains. They might be ok for 2ch, but in a multichannel rig, maybe not.
Again, seeing some measurements would help sort that out.
So how would I go about taking the measurements?

Also I have been doing about 90% 2 Channel listening lately and not much movie watching. Been demoing different equipment and buying some and not others. LOL But my buddy and I did start and watch a movie last night but only after making level changes. Since the panels have been added I never calibrated the room for surround listening. I have yet to do a full Audyssey setup yet with the Marantz. Probably get to that this weekend. So as of last night I sat with my DB Meter in my listening spot and moved the speaker levels manually so that all speakers were at 70db in my listening chair. Ready Player One sounded amazing afterwards. Bass is much faster and precise instead of rattling around the room if that makes any sense. And I had to turn the level down on the center channel by a lot. It was 10db higher since adding the panels. Not sure how that is.
 

JonFo

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So how would I go about taking the measurements?
Buy a UMIK-1 and connect to your laptop.
Follow the guides linked below to take measurements. It takes a bit of practice, but it's not that hard.

Helpful threads:


Highly recommend using the HDMI link, as you can measure the various channels independently just by selecting which channel to output on in REW.
 

JonFo

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I have yet to do a full Audyssey setup yet with the Marantz.
Oh wow! You are leaving a bunch of performance on the table, my friend.

Step 1 get the Audyssey App on your smartphone or tablet (preferred), then initiate a calibration run using that.

The main benefit is the correct timing delays set for all channels. You will notice a huge improvement in Atmos tracks (like the RP1).
Use a very small measurement range (+/- 2' from MLP) and follow the other guidance in this thread: Room correction setup guide for ML’s

Also, turn DynamicEQ OFF when playing Atmos content, as the skews in volume and EQ break down the 3D bubble.
 

JLasher22443

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Buy a UMIK-1 and connect to your laptop.
Follow the guides linked below to take measurements. It takes a bit of practice, but it's not that hard.

Helpful threads:


Highly recommend using the HDMI link, as you can measure the various channels independently just by selecting which channel to output on in REW.
Microphone has been purchased. Thanks for the info and I'll keep you posted once I get it in. Also I'll attempt to do the Audessy setup tonight with my iPad Pro.
 

JLasher22443

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Hey @JonFo I did an Audessy Tune on my room and I just don't like how it sounds for movies. It turns everything way down on levels and its just not good in my opinion. Now it did change the crossovers on almost all the speakers but it just doesn't sound great. Any advice? I much rather set my dB meter in my seat and turn the levels up until I get 70db at my seat for each speaker. Then I set all crossovers to 80hz. But what do you think and recommend?

Here are what the AV7703 set.
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As for the REW setup; you must need some college degree to get that thing to work right. LOL I could not figure that out to save my life. LOL I'll give it another try and let you know.

Also I ran another ARC test on the 15a"s. I've added those results below.

This is before GIK Room Treatments and 15A Break-In.

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And this is after the GIK Treatments and 15A Break-in. Not sure I can see any difference. I can definitely tell when I turn ARC on and off. When off the bass hits a lot harder.

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JLasher22443

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Added a few pieces to my setup over the past year. Figured I'd share my path and why I made the choices.
  • Audio Research REF 6SE Preamplifier
  • Audio Research REF 160S Amplifier
  • Shunyata Research Everest 8000T Power Distribution
  • Shunyata Research Omega XC Power Cord
  • Hana Umami Red MC Cartridge
  • Degritter Ultrasonic Record Cleaner
  • Moon by SIMAudio 280D Streaming DAC
  • HRS Isolation Base (HRS SXR Rack incoming)
Now for how these purchases came about over the past year. I've been watching YouTube and reading forums for the entire Pandemic. Since the beginning and being stuck at home with nothing to do but work, read, and watch videos for 10 hours a day at my desk. What started out as demoing DAC's turned into a massive upgrade for my entire 2 channel setup.

My initial plan was to demo the dCS Bartok or the MSB Discrete DAC up against my PS Audio, Chord, Cambridge, and iFi DAC's within my room. That way I could really hear the difference on my system and not in some other room with different everything. This is when I found JS Audio in Bethesda, MD. They were a dCS vendor and I set up a demo with them to have a listen. Steve and Dave were great and let me listen for 2 hours with different setups of various High End gear on Wilson Audio Alexx V speakers. I was very impressed but asked how it would compare with my system at home. Dave was like, "well take it home and try it out." What? LOL I hadn't purchased anything from them yet and he was already letting me demo gear. Wow!

So I took the Bartok home with me and cabled it up. Started comparing it against the other options which I discussed in the DAC forum on here. In the end I was not as impressed with the Bartok in my system as I was at JS Audio. Maybe it was the synergy of my equipment but it didn't blow away the PS Audio. And definitely not for an extra $11k in price. So with one call to JS Audio they stated it could be a few things in my system but they recommended we start at the next stage of the chain in my system, the preamp. Their thought was the PS Audio BHK Pre was causing the loss of Wow we had in the store. So they said come on back and bring my PS Audio BHK with me.

This time I listened for another 2 hours between preamps like the Boulder 1110, Dan D'Agostino's Momentum and Progression Preamp, and the ARC REF 6SE. It was a huge toss up between the ARC and the Boulder and I still was on the fence that these were going to blow away my BHK just because they were so much pricier. Then Steve said; go grab your BHK and bring it inside. So I bring it in and they let me hook it up in the chain with the same wires, amp and speakers, Alexx V and Boulder 1160 Amp with Odin cables all around. I powered it up and started listening and was like WTF!! The system sounded like a thick wool blanket was put in front of the speakers and a huge giant concrete drain pipe you see under highways was added to the room. The band was sitting inside that drain pipe playing for me. Like in a 6 foot round drain. LOL Right then I knew my system sucked at home. LOL That day I purchased the ARC REF 6SE on the spot and they let me take the dCS back home again for more demo time.

Once home and connected the REF 6SE and it just blew me away. My Logan's were singing loud and proud and the sound stage was huge. Every little detail from songs I had heard several times before were now full of more detail and separation; just amazing. I was simplyt blown away as to how much I was missing. Next thing you know I'm demoing the 160S and the Boulder 1161 and 1160, along with the Dan D Progression S350. Again choosing the Audio Research gear. It just made my system so much more natural and easy to listen to without fatiguing my ears. One test I do is play Radiohead National Anthem at about 80-85db and really get in to the song for about a minute and then pause it. If my ears are ringing its fatiguing my ears. With the ARC Gear I had none of that.

Now I had found my shop in JS Audio. These guys were treating me like family and my system like it was their own.

So about a month later I purchased a few Nordost cables which I traded up from old ones I had and they asked what power conditioner I was using. In my head was like uh oh, here comes the snake oil treatment. And I was just beginning to love this shop. LOL After explaining what I had with Panamax, Furman, and Nordost QB8 they recommended Shunyata. And I was like no I don't see the point in spending that kind of money on those things and I was skeptic. Dave said I agree with you totally, so how about you take home this Denali and power cord and give it a try at home. If you don't hear a difference bring it back and that's the end of the discussion about power conditioning.

I get home and throw the Denali into the system. Power all of my 2 channel stuff off of the Denali and Nordost QB8. Pop on a record and start to listen. Instantly I notice the bass improvement. In fact its so deep and hitting so hard I was literally shocked. Next thing I know I'm turning it up a few clicks and the record player starts to have major bass reverb and I have to mute the preamp because the volume kept climbing. Now I can't even turn my system up pst 70db because of the reverb. My volume was around 36 on the REF 6SE before the Denali but now I couldn't get it to 28. Crazy how much the Bass had improved. So I wasn't able to even listen to vinyl now so I switched to streaming. Man was the streaming justs amazing! Only I still couldn't spin vinyl at listening levels because of the reverb. So I explained this to JS Audio and told them how much it improved my system and what it did to my TT. They recommended I come by and grab an HRS Platform.

HRS platform was put in under my system and the reverb went away. Now I can push the system up to 46 and 90db on my meter and it sounds terrific. That brought me to the purchase of an HRS SXR Rack which is on its way. And after two weeks of the Denali in my system I was sold and had to purchase the Everest.

Last but not least I upgraded my Cartridge and purchased the Degritter in hopes of bringing down the surface noise a little more on my records with better wet cleaning. So far I am in love with the Hana Umami and its performance. Still demoing the Boulder 508 Phono with it for now.

Here are a few photos of the additions.

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