System #210 (CLS)

[kmanusa]

Name: Keith

Location: Virginia, USA

ML Model(s): CLS

Year Purchased: 2007

Mods/Changes: Power supply mod to lower the high voltage of early units done by Jim Power. Removed the stiffener tape, heat treated the panels.

Associated Equipment:

Amps: Bryston 4B-ST, McIntosh MC7270, MC2205
Preamps: Bryston BP-20, 12B
CD: Sony XA7ES, Pioneer DV-45a
Phono: Roksan Xerxes X, Van den Hul MC One, Audioquest 7000nsx
Tape: Technics RS-1500
Tuners: McIntosh MR-78, MR-71
Subs: VMPS New Original
Crossovers: Marchand XM-26, XM-9
Boxed in the basement: Magnepan MG-IIIa

Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience:

This is my second pair of CLS. Back in the mid 1990s, I owned a "mini statement" system: CLS IIzs and Kinergetics SW-800s! A Jadis amp, CAT preamp and Goldmund Studio rounded out that system. I sold it all before I got married, ah the things we do for love!!

 

[TomDac]

welcome aboard!

 

[Huey]

WoW..nice system...please post some photos of your turntable and amps... Very nice.

 

[philox]

Isn't your old system in the forum? I remember a "Mini-Statement" that sold the tower subs for a single sub??? If it was you how does the Bryston compare to the Jadis in powering CLS's? Or how are you using the McIntoshs?

 

[nsgarch]

That was me Phil

Isn't your old system in the forum? I remember a "Mini-Statement" that sold the tower subs for a single sub??? If it was you how does the Bryston compare to the Jadis in powering CLS's? Or how are you using the McIntoshs?

I sold the Kinergetics SW800's, got a Depth and then sold the ss Levinson 23.5 and got a new Mac MC275. I'm sooo happy : Way better sound with way less stuff.

 

[kmanusa]

Here are some pictures of my other equipment. You can see a close up of the Roksan Xerxes turntable and SME 309 arm.

I have been at this since the early 1970s. In addition to that 'mini statement' that I sold back in 1999, I have had all sorts of other high end speakers including Magneplanar Tympanis and MG-IIIas, IMF Monitors, Acoustat 2+2s, Snell Type Bs, B&W 801s, and Quad 988s. Electronics I have had include ARC, Spectral, CAT, Mark Levinson, Jadis, Bryston, Krell, BEL, and McIntosh among others.

My CLS-based systems are the most transparent of all systems I have had.

 

[Kaboomnash]

Very nice! Great job.

Lee

 

[Joey_V]

Definitely a very cozy looking system....

Good job! :clap:

 

[edwinr]

Very nice system. I like the oak finish on the CLS's.

 

[kmanusa]

Regrettably, I have not posted here in many years although I continue to follow these Forums in a lurking mode. Here is an update of my system.

Name: Keith

Location: Virginia, USA

ML Model(s): CLS (original)

Year Purchased: 2007

Mods/Changes: Power supply mod to lower the high voltage of early units done by Jim Power. New panels bought circa 2007 from Martin Logan.

Partial List of Associated Equipment:

Amps: McIntosh MC7270, MC2205, MC275 IV (2), Sunfire 600x2, 300x2
Preamps: Bryston BP-25, 12B, ARC LS25 II, Spectral DMC12, Berning TF-10
CD: Sony XA7ES, Arcam CD33
Streamer: Bluesound Node
DA: Topping D90SE
Phono: Roksan Xerxes X, Technics SP25, Van den Hul MC One, Audioquest 7000nsx, Shure V15 Type V
Tape: Technics RS-1500, Revox B77
Tuners: McIntosh MR-78, MR-71
Subs: Kinergetics SW800, VMPS New Original
Crossovers: Kinergetics, Marchand XM-26, XM-9
Stands: Sound Anchors

I also own JBL 250ti speakers and other assorted amps and preamps not listed above.

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

If you have replaced panels then do sonics remind you of 1990s system minus kinergetic towers?

In your experience which power amps match best with CLS?

Does the Macintosh 275 tube power amp match very well with CLS?

Thanks.

 

[kmanusa]

First I’d say it is not easy to compare the sound of my CLS with new panels and the CLS 2z I had in the 1990s because I had them in different rooms in different houses.

But one thing does stand out in my mind. My CLS 2z had a much greater tendency to make rubbing and buzzing sounds when pushed hard in the bass. This was evident in playing music with big bass drum sounds even when using the Kinergetics high pass filter and subs. When I got the new panels for the CLS in 2007, I noticed they did not misbehave in this manner.

Now perhaps my 2z panels needed replacement back then but they did not have a lot of years on them and seemed to be fine in other respects. Note I bought both the CLS and the CLS 2z used so I never owned brand new versions of either.

One other thing I noticed is that my CLS with new panels exhibit a peak in the bass (around 55 Hz I think) that I never noticed with the CLS 2z full range. This is less of an issue when using the subs however. I’m currently crossing them over to the subs at 70 Hz and using the 24db/octave filters in the Marchand crossover rather than the Kinergetics box.

I’ve had best luck with the Sunfire amps driving my CLS. The MC-275 does pretty well with them as well although there is a bit of compression when playing wide dynamic range music even when running the 275s in parallel mono. The Sunfire amps sound more dynamic when driving my CLS than the 275s especially the 600 watt version. Of course both Sunfires (600 and 300 wpc) run a lot more power than the parallel mono 275s.

Still I could easily live with the 275s driving my CLS. Note my observation about the 275 may not apply to using it with the CLS 2 series of speakers because those speakers presented a somewhat different impedance load to amps than the original CLS.

Hope this helps!

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

This helps vastly, greatly, hugely. Music to my ears. Thanks.

I have owned CLS bought second hand since approx. 1995.

Love them. I have promised to give to a relative free. However I have set 2 conditions for transfer to him. One not to sell them.
second to take care of them and install new panels.

 

[kmanusa]

I commend you for your generosity, your relative will get a wonderful pair of speakers. And new panels should be a big improvement.

Regards,
Keith

 

[Leporello]

This helps vastly, greatly, hugely. Music to my ears. Thanks.

I have owned CLS bought second hand since approx. 1995.

Love them. I have promised to give to a relative free. However I have set 2 conditions for transfer to him. One not to sell them.
second to take care of them and install new panels.

That makes it a rather expensive gift for the recipient. Is there any indication they actually need new panels? This forum is the first I have heard that panels should always be replaced after a certain amount of time.

 

[kmanusa]

I can say my original panels were in dire need of replacement. The vertical strips that ML glued to the CLS diaphragm surface had come loose and were making audible rubbing sounds as they made contact with the metal stators when playing back music with any sort of LF content. Also the sound was clearly rolled off, dull, and lifeless.

The CLS is different from other electrostatics in that it does not use dust filters as do the Quad ESLs for example. Early CLS panels may also have suffered from charge migration but this was said to have been corrected with panel design changes.

Vacuuming can extend the life of panels but there may be a point where this no longer works. Some folks here report improvements after washing their panels in the shower!

Improvements in processes, materials and adhesives allow ML to offer replacement panels that are superior to the panels marketed in the 1980s and 1990s.

I only paid around $800 for a set of replacement panels back in the 2007/8 timeframe. I understand they are way more expensive now so cost is clearly a consideration when contemplating replacement.

My replacement panels were a big improvement; greater dynamic range and much livelier sound were among the main benefits. Still going strong in 2023. And I do vacuum them regularly!

 

[Rehan Azim Hashmi]

A speaker cable I use and recommend is Nordost Blue Heaven. Recommended to me by maestro MLO member.

Digital to Analogue converter has a major impact on overall sonic. A great digital to analogue converter is Holo Spring 3 KTE. Not heard this dac. This dac has much touted resistor ladder technology. And this manufacturer again recommended by musician, electronics expert MLO member.

For improved sonic if possible place identical 5cm to 6 cm high pavement blocks at base of CLS. And sonics at least to me improve if CLS is vertically perpendicular to ground.

I recently read and discovered a formula in ML Classic ELS9 manual for optimal or precise placement. If not precise optimal placement then close to optimal or within one feet radius of ideal placement in room.

Measure the distance of wall in front of LP from ground to ceiling in inches. Multiply by 0.618 .Each CLS front midpoint must be kept this distance from front wall. Now you know placement of CLS lengthwise in room.

Next calculation for placement from sidewall. Measure total distance in inches between sidewalls. First divide this measurement by 18. Second multiply by 5. The result is required distance from side wall to front midpoint of CLS.

I used to have in mid 90’s Sony X505ES cd player. Quite analogue sounding.

I also contemplated acquiring Bryston either 3bsst or 4bsst power amp. Not know whether would sound good with CLS. Not easily available in Vienna. Call dealer and take appointment. I am not conversant in German and know only a smattering of German. Most Austrians not conversant in English. Very problematic.