System #115 (Ascent, Descent)

[User211]

1. Member Name: Justin
2. Location: West Of England
3. ML Model(s): Ascent\Descent
4. Year Purchased: 2002.
5. Mods/Changes: None.
6. Associated Electronics:

Sources:

Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista SACD
Michell Gyrodec
Morch DP6 Tonearm
Ortofon MC5000
Trichord Delphini + Never Connected Power Supply
Slim Devices SqueezeBox
Sony VAIO Laptop + 250GB External Hard Drive

Amps:

Air Tight ATC-10a Passive Pre with upgraded potentiometer.
Air Tight ATM-2 Power Amp.
Austria Analog 211 SE Monos

Speakers:

Well, you can see!

7. Comments and/or stories about your Martin Logan experience:

I used to own a pair of Martin Logan Aerius for nearly 10 years. I part ex-changed them for the Ascents, then bought the sub. I have just moved into the house the picture was taken in. This room was intended to be a dinning room.

Whilst the Descent was near on essential in the lounge the system used to belong in (a much larger room), I am not sure it's 100% necessary in this one, apart from on some recordings. No that sub is NOT used whilst playing a record! Records create massive cone excursions on the sub that aren't related to the recording, which is very audible on warped records, so therefore it never gets used.

When I got the Ascents, I was stunned at how much better they were than the Aerius. The larger panel size made an enourmous difference. This is why I am not convinced by the latest ML designs. More perforations may mean greater exposed area, but I still feel a big panel is where it's at. Having said that I haven't heard them yet so I am not qualified to speak. I have a sneaking suspiscion that pair of Summits may land in this room at some stage if I am proven wrong!

I have been into hi-fi since I used to sit in my brother's room from about the age of five. At that time he used valves and paper cones. I have been to masses of hi-fi shows and heard lots of different systems. To my ears electrostatic and ribbon type speakers produce the best sounds.

The Austria Analog amps are a new aquisition. I have just purchased a quad of NOS RCA 211s to put in them but they haven't arrived yet. There aren't many 211 based amps that can drive the MLs - Cary is an obvious example. I have to say these have way more power and go louder than the Air Tight, with no audible signs of stress. They also use OA3 and OD3 gas discharge voltage regulations creating a great multi-coloured light show! They double as a room heater too!

Oh - whoever designed the ML dynamic speaker grills is TOTALLY incompetent - they absolutely HAVE to be removed! The effect on the sound is dramatic!

Happy listening all!

Justin

 

[Peter Hogan]

No that sub is NOT used whilst playing a record! Records create massive cone excursions on the sub that aren't related to the recording, which is very audible on warped records, so therefore it never gets used.

Justin

Hi,
It looks like you have your turntable sitting atop the subwoofer...I'll try to be diplomatic about this, but I REALLY think that is not the best of places to have it...

Peter

 

[Audiophiliac]

Its a Descent. They will play without knocking a nickel over

 

[Peter Hogan]

Hi,
It looks like you have your turntable sitting atop the subwoofer...I'll try to be diplomatic about this, but I REALLY think that is not the best of places to have it...

Peter

Its a Descent. They will play without knocking a nickel over

Hi..
Let me try a different approach...the top of a subwoofer, ANY subwoofer, has got to be the absolute WORST place you could put a turntable. I realize the the Descent has 3 speakers 120 degrees apart, which tends to cancel each other, vibration wise. However, in your original post you say it causes massive cone excursions having nothing to do with the recording. To me, that sounds exactly like acoustic feedback, which is just what I would expect you'd get with your present setup. Turntables want an absolutely vibration free surface, and a subwoofer, no matter how well 'balanced', simply does not qualify.

Humor me, and try putting the turntable on a solid table, as far away from the subwoofer as possible. I'd be willing to bet that cures your 'massive cone excursions'...

Peter

 

[User211]

Pete,

Start thinking again on this:

1) It used to sit on a Mana Acoustics glass/steel dedicated turntable table. The glass on this used to vibrate A LOT when the volume was high. A highly rated table it may be, but the fact is it picks up LOADS of vibrational energy.

2) Turn the Descent up stupidly high and feel the cabinet. Unbelievably, you cant' feel any vibration in the cabinet, due to the three drivers behaving in an identical manner in a triangular configuration. This is what I believe makes the Descent one of the best subs available.

3) Put a turntable on it, turn the sub off, and whack the system volume level way up. You can't feel any vibration in the subs cabinet at all, even though it's acting as a passive sub. I'd guess the drivers are absorbing the energy in the same way as they are when playing. Note also the Descents cabinet IS ULTRA STIFF.

4) Put the needle on a record without revolving the record and put the volume up high. Whack the sub. Hardly anything gets through compared to an equivalent bang on the Mana table.

Conclusion: the Descent is a VERY VERY good turntable support INDEED. Possibly one of the best, which is only confirmed when listening! So please all bear in mind this subs dual capabilities!

 

[User211]

Pete,

Put a warped record on. Watch the cones move in sync with the warps. It's that simple. Even with the turntable on the Mana, I never used the sub.

Justin

 

[User211]

BTW: many phono stages roll of the low frequency output of vinyl records to eliminate the grudge it puts out at low frequencies. The Delphini is one that doesn't. So other turntable users may not see what I do. In other words, don't use a sub when playing vinyl cos you'll either get the grunge, or it'll be rolled off anyway, precluding the need for a sub in the 1st place! Assuming that is you have main speakers that go down low in the 1st place. If your using satellites, ignore this and set your sub to let high bass frequencies through!

 

[jjqiv]

Hi,
It looks like you have your turntable sitting atop the subwoofer...I'll try to be diplomatic about this, but I REALLY think that is not the best of places to have it...

Peter

Try a high mass wall rack to alleviate the woofer pumping blues.

I really love Airtight gear. Never heard them will Logan's though. I have heard your pre and amps do great things with Quad's, Avalon's, and Sonus Faber's. I would image they would be fantastic for powering the panel's in a bi-amp situation.

 

[User211]

Hi Jim,

I used to dream of owning CLSs...

I bought the Air Tight after having heard an ATM-1 in the early nineties and NEVER forgot it. I got the Air Tight ATM-2 about 4 years ago. I toyed with the idea of getting two, but one seems to be enough. MLs have gotten a lot more efficient - the SL3 needed much more juice than the Ascent does. I can't let go of it until I am sure I like the Austria Analogs more. It takes me A LONG TIME to decide if I prefer some components over others.... I'll soon be switching back to the ATM-2 to see what it sounds like in this new room... and to give it a fair chance! Haven't heard it for a while what with the house move etc...

Oh - I'll stick with my Descent as the ultimate controversial turntable stand!

 

[User211]

Ever get the impression that you are talking to yourself? Well, of course you are...

 

[DTB300]

I used to dream of owning CLSs...

They come up for sale occasionally.....and you can still buy new panels for them...so your dream can still be fulfilled... Mine was

 

[Joey_V]

Its a Descent. They will play without knocking a nickel over

I've seen that done by my dealer... it's a very cool trick to demonstrate the inert-ness (word?) of the Descent. If the Summits can balance a nickel, I'm sure your TT is fine.

Though, it's still a scary sight if anyone should nudge it.

Nice system btw!

 

[Reverb2009]

I've seen that done by my dealer... it's a very cool trick to demonstrate the inert-ness (word?) of the Descent. If the Summits can balance a nickel, I'm sure your TT is fine.

Though, it's still a scary sight if anyone should nudge it.

Nice system btw!

You should try putting a glass of water on top of the descent and watch the ripples, not too many vibrations but they are there.


Cool system,

Thanks for posting it.

 

[User211]

Joe,

Glass of water test sounds cool - will try in in various locations and post the results - could be interesting!

Justin

 

[Robin]

Excellent - Tubed System with Ascent / Descent...

Justin,

Welcome to the ML Club!
You have a really beautiful Ascent / Descent tubed musical system...
I hadn't realized your TT was so large it looks like it actually covers the top of your Descent. What kind of music do you listen to most of the time?

Cool looking and sounding system.

It is good to have you here.

 

[User211]

Robin,

Yup the CD player has a tubed output. Both amps use tubes. I am allergic to solid state! And I'm not impressed with Tact digital amps either - I was disappointed to say the least.

Mainly rock, some reggae, some pop. I used to be a punk so there's a sizeable amount of that in my collection.

Here's a close up of one of the monos in operation... I have since replaced the gas regulators with RCA ones rather than the Tungram's here. They look better still...

Your hanging MLs look mad!

 

[Robin]

Great Photo of your Tubed Mono Block...

Justin,

Your Mono Block amps look so cool. What are the glowing three cylindrical devices, towards the rear of your mono block amp? They don't look like tubes?

Excellent close-up photo...

Marvelous musical system.

 

[User211]

The orange ones are 75V gas discharge voltage regulators. The purple ones (there are two) are 150V regulators. They are tubes.

They are great amps - totally mad but they are great! Really easy on the ear, the midrange is so clear, clean and unconfused compared to virtually anything else. I have to say pride of ownership figures high with these

 

[Robin]

Gas Discharge Voltage Regulators...

The orange ones are 75V gas discharge voltage regulators. The purple ones (there are two) are 150V regulators. They are tubes.

They are great amps - totally mad but they are great! Really easy on the ear, the midrange is so clear, clean and unconfused compared to virtually anything else. I have to say pride of ownership figures high with these

Justin,

Excellent... I never have seen these kind of tubes, like your orange (75V) and purple (150V) - gas discharge voltage regulators, they look sooooo cool... I'm also happy to hear that they sound as good as they look.

Thanks again, for the great information. I'm going to look for these types of tubes, on the tube amplifiers, I am continuing to research on line and in audio stores.

 

[User211]

You should try putting a glass of water on top of the descent and watch the ripples, not too many vibrations but they are there.


Cool system,

Thanks for posting it.

I did try it and yes, there isn't much that's visible until the sub is turned up really quite highly. Anyway, I just had a dem of the Vantage versus the Summit. I was SHOCKED at just how awful the Vantage was... are ML taking the ****? It just sounded totally dull and lifeless even though driven by powerful Krell amps. The Summit was in another league altogether - it's a genuinely great speaker. But the Ascent WALKS ALL OVER the tiny Vantage. In fact I rate the old Aerius as better than the Vantage is now. The Vantage is JUST TOO SMALL for an ESL to work properly.

The result of the dem is that I will end up buying the Spectral stand the equipment sat on! Dead smart.