rawatch
Active member
Has anybody experienced adding a super tweeter to a esl panel
Super tweeter
- Thread starter rawatch
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BigGuy
Well-known member
Yes, I do but am in the camp that believes that there is something to be gained sonically by having capability to produce frequencies beyond 20kHz.. There are numerous papers on both sides of the topic but this is the one that got me thinking about it...
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm
A friend who has been an audiophile for decades owns an original pair of the Sequerra super tweeters which he uses with his Avantgarde Duos. We both believe that the addition of the super tweeters adds to the air and low level detail of the presentation,.
After considerable reading and trading emails with the designer plus not wanting to bet the ranch, I opted for the Taket BatPure modules...
TAKET|Super Tweeter|BATPURE which have a frequency response of 15,000 to 100,000kHz so decent overlap with the M-L CLXs.
I mounted them in a baffle similar to the famous JBL "butt cheeks"
The baffles were mounted into 4" black PVC elbows joined to 4" pipe "posts" cut to ear=-level height.
NOTE: Since the BatPure modules have a low sensitivity relative to the CLXs, I am using an Emotiva integrated amp to approximate the output of the CLXs.
http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm
A friend who has been an audiophile for decades owns an original pair of the Sequerra super tweeters which he uses with his Avantgarde Duos. We both believe that the addition of the super tweeters adds to the air and low level detail of the presentation,.
After considerable reading and trading emails with the designer plus not wanting to bet the ranch, I opted for the Taket BatPure modules...
TAKET|Super Tweeter|BATPURE which have a frequency response of 15,000 to 100,000kHz so decent overlap with the M-L CLXs.
I mounted them in a baffle similar to the famous JBL "butt cheeks"
The baffles were mounted into 4" black PVC elbows joined to 4" pipe "posts" cut to ear=-level height.
NOTE: Since the BatPure modules have a low sensitivity relative to the CLXs, I am using an Emotiva integrated amp to approximate the output of the CLXs.
I wonder, how do animals like cats react to those when they are used? Their hearing goes considerably higher frequency than a human.
BigGuy
Well-known member
rawatch
Active member
Do you have pictures of the installation?
BigGuy
Well-known member
As Arlo Guthrie said "twenty-seven 8 x 10 colored glossy pictures" but I only have four.
The footer for the stand is a PVC floor drain and the BatPure is mounted on a round speaker terminal plate reversed in the mouth of the elbow providing 5-way jacks for wiring.
The footer for the stand is a PVC floor drain and the BatPure is mounted on a round speaker terminal plate reversed in the mouth of the elbow providing 5-way jacks for wiring.
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Leporello
Well-known member
I don't have too many rodent incidents but once in a while I find a dead one, thanks to my pets. No supertweeters either, though.Dunno since I don't have a pet...but no rodents either!
The concept that frequencies ostensibly above the range of human hearing is fascinating, but one I haven't explored. Of late, my limit is well below supertweeter range.
With curved ESL I think the limiting factor is the transformer network. With a thin, light diaphragm the mass reactance doesn't become a factor compared to the acoustic impedance of the air it's pushing until well above 20 khz. With flat ESL's, beaming at high frequencies is a major problem, and tweeters or supertweeters were sometimes used to help--notably with the Hartley-Quad-Decca system. Also, I think ML made (still makes?) HT oriented speakers with tweeters, that can be turned off, to exceed the nominal 30 degree dispersion that's standard with ML.
Mirolab
Well-known member
It seems to me an extra super-tweeter could only integrate properly if you could somehow mount it in the center of the ESL panel (impossible). Putting it to the side will always result in comb filtering of the overlap frequencies, as you move your head laterally. Any advantage 'might' be a slight increase in HF spaciousness, since ESLs don't radiate anything to the sides, and tend to not sound spacious in a room like dynamic drivers do. The extra tweeter will have wider dispersion than the ESLs, and may sound a bit more exciting around the room. That might not be a bad thing for certain situations, or types of music.
Ive never seen it before, but these high end speakers have a tweeter on the side. Electrostat panels on front and the tweeter on the side aiming toward side walls.
Valentina A8 (Active) - JansZenAudio
Valentina A8 (Active) - JansZenAudio
Since the JansZen is a monopole, and has a flat ESL, it tends to beam and has no rear-wave to 'fill in' and widen the soundstage. My guess is they added the tweeters to satisfy traditional ESL owners' desire for a less beamy, wider soundstage.
Me, I'd run them with the side tweeter totally off.
Interesting topic. As I've been considering adding a folded-motion tweeter to the front three speakers to bring more of a point-source behavior to them, which would be beneficial for Atmos reproduction.
I have two tweeters from an ML Motion 60XTi (along with woofers, etc. for a front-wides project) that I plan to temporarily mount to the outer edge frame of my Monoliths for testing.
I'll reconfigure the DriveRack 4800 to perform a three-way crossover with the panel to tweeter happening around 6 to 8 KHz with steep slopes. Will also time-align the impulses so they sync.
So not exactly a super-tweeter, but it will add much more output at 20KHz (and a bit above, that tweeter is specced to hit 25KHz). Not that I can hear anything over 12KHz these days.
My goal is to give the rig a dual personality, one with the current full panel typical sound, and one for immersive audio / movies with the point-source-like reproduction of high frequencies.
I can automate the switching of crossovers and use of two room correction curves.
I have two tweeters from an ML Motion 60XTi (along with woofers, etc. for a front-wides project) that I plan to temporarily mount to the outer edge frame of my Monoliths for testing.
I'll reconfigure the DriveRack 4800 to perform a three-way crossover with the panel to tweeter happening around 6 to 8 KHz with steep slopes. Will also time-align the impulses so they sync.
So not exactly a super-tweeter, but it will add much more output at 20KHz (and a bit above, that tweeter is specced to hit 25KHz). Not that I can hear anything over 12KHz these days.
My goal is to give the rig a dual personality, one with the current full panel typical sound, and one for immersive audio / movies with the point-source-like reproduction of high frequencies.
I can automate the switching of crossovers and use of two room correction curves.
rawatch
Active member
I just ordered the tweeters, here did you get the baffle horn?
BigGuy
Well-known member
Been a few years but will see if I can find my hard copy build file.
Hi Guys
You might find this interesting.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diy_supertweeters_e.html
Not exactly sure if the suggested tweeter operates much above 18mhz The specified range., but I have been using them for some time with my Aeons. Does it make a difference, well I have not really been able to test them out, but I hope too over the next few months or so.
Help the helps
Regards
Pegwill
You might find this interesting.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/diy_supertweeters_e.html
Not exactly sure if the suggested tweeter operates much above 18mhz The specified range., but I have been using them for some time with my Aeons. Does it make a difference, well I have not really been able to test them out, but I hope too over the next few months or so.
Help the helps
Regards
Pegwill
BigGuy
Well-known member
Baffle was from original MCM Electronics which is now Newark Electronics. Unfortunately, looks like Newark has 0 stock...
https://www.newark.com/zebra-sound/...5-5/dp/88W0364?st=midrange / tweeter horn abs
But did find this listing after googling on "NTX-1466 MIDRANGE/TWEETER HORN"...
https://www.aallyandsons.com/horn-only-ntx-1466-6x6-pvc-nippon-america/?setCurrencyId=2
Here is the terminal box that I used to mount the Taket modules and then inserted into the mouth of the PVC elbow...
https://www.amazon.com/Absolute-RST...er+box+terminal+cup+4+inch,aps,96&sr=8-5&th=1
NOTE 1: I reversed the mounting of the binding posts to the back of the cup for connecting speaker wires and then attached the Taket wires to the brass fittings which had been on the back with push-on connectors.
NOTE 2: I made the vertical piece of the stand in 2 pieces joined with a collar and then mounted a pair of 5-ways just above the collar for internal access and to allow the connection to the outside speaker-to-amp to be shorter.
NOTE 3: NONE of the PVC joints were glued...I used self-tapping screws which allows for disassembly for modification, etc.
NOTE 4: These notes are what I DID;
Hope this helps.
BigGuy
Well-known member
Never measured the BatPure modules but Impedance is listed here...
http://www.taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html
Company is also very responsive to customer inquiries if more info is needed.
http://www.taket.jp/batpure/batpure.html
Company is also very responsive to customer inquiries if more info is needed.
BigGuy
Well-known member
The lower frequency is nominally 15kHz which should show up on a RTA plot. A good freeware app is AudioTools | Studio Six Digital
