Summit X plus Lyngdorf TDAI 2170?

[tribble]

Search though I may, I haven't found any listening notes for MLs driven by the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. I'm really intrigued by that integrated amp, but am having an impossible time finding a free weekend to drive to the nearest Lyngdorf dealer to hear it. Has anyone listened critically to the 2170 on a Summit or similar panel? Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[RUR]

Well, I can come close, if that helps...

I briefly used a TacT S2150 amp to drive a pair of Summits and it was the single best amp I'd ever heard with the speakers. Hands down, no contest, many amps auditioned. It's the kissin' cousin of the Lyndorf, as both originated in a collaboration between Peter Lyngdorf and Radomir Bozovitch under the TacT banner. After a corporate divorce back in ~2000, Boz kept the TacT name and Peter became Lyngdorf Audio. Both the TacT and today's Lyngdorf product were/are based upon TI's Equibit technology. I verified this with the Lyngdorf folks at CEDIA back in October.

Now for the bad news: Within a couple of months, the TacT ceased functioning. I had the amp repaired several times only to fail, and fail again. Both Martin Logan and Boz swore up and down that the problem was not theirs. In the end, I never did get it resolved and simply moved on to a different amp. Now, it may or may not be related to the ML's reactive load, or Lyngdorf's iteration of the Equibit tech may not be susceptible to whatever compatibility issue I may or may not have had, but I'd make sure to get reassurances from Lyngdorf and/or a bullet-proof guarantee.

I've heard the Room Perfect correction in a MacIntosh MEN220 running a pair of CLX's and at various shows. It's a fine product.

 

[tribble]

Wow, talk about a double-edged sword! RUR, thanks so much for the history. It's wonderful to hear that the tech sounds great on the summits, but scary to hear they may greatly reduce the MTBF of that kind of output design. But, as they say, no risk, no reward... I have read just about every Google hit for the 2170 that's in English and I am just dying for it to work out. I will redouble my efforts to find some childcare and get to the nearest dealer for an audition. If it sounds as good as I hope, I'll bring one home and report back. To date I've only heard the summits on McIntosh and Classe gear at the local ML shop before I bought them. I much preferred the MC 452 to the Classe, but they were also in different positions.

If I might ask, what amp did you settle on post-TacT?

 

[RUR]

If I might ask, what amp did you settle on post-TacT?

I purchased a Sanders ESL amp, which I used thereafter. It's a terrific amp, but there was something magical about the unusual power DAC, pure-digital topology used in the TacT/Lyngdorf. NAD also makes a couple of amps using this topology, though I don't think it's Equibit based.

As a huge proponent of SotA room correction, I suspect you may find Room Perfect as interesting as the amp, itself.

Good luck and please keep me posted!

Ken

 

[tribble]

Thanks much! I definitely will do. Might be a few weeks, but I will be sure to report back when I have something of interest.

 

[Gadgety]

I've got Sanders ESL, and various Tact amplifiers, and various ESL panels, M-L CLS included. Not the Summits, though. I assume the Summits aren't as brutal on the amplifiers as the CLSs are.

On the CLS not even the most powerful of the Tact amplifiers manages to drive the tweeter. I've measured it and it was -18dB at 20kHz if I recall correctly. Sanders ESL is designed to run stable at low Ohms, whereas the Tacts (and consequently the Lyngdorfs) have an analog filter on the output that interacts with the speaker unless they are 6 Ohm. For most speakers this doesn't matter because it can be adjusted through the room/speaker correction (RoomPerfect from Lyngdorf) but with the CLS the dip is too severe, and is dependent on the current provided. I've even managed to shut the Tact down (thankfully due to protective circuitry). On my other flat ESL panels which are run from 325 hz on up, the Tacts run well, sound clearer than the ESL, "more blackness" (this could be partly be dependent on the D/A used for the analog amp, but it could also be dependent on the short signal path of the Tacts) but the ESL amp manages more snap with percussion, which made me go with the Sanders in the end.

BTW the TDAi 2170 is roughly half the power of the Tact 2150, 170W at 4 Ohm, compared to 300W. In addition it peaks at 30A output current, compared to 50A of the 2150, and 100A of Millennium.

 

[tribble]

Gadgety, thanks for the info! I'm curious how this current measurement plays in to the sound from the speakers... how does one hear insufficient current?

 

[Gadgety]

Gadgety, thanks for the info! I'm curious how this current measurement plays in to the sound from the speakers... how does one hear insufficient current?

Think of it like water in a faucet. Low ohm, such as the CLS, which goes down to 1/2 ohm, the current flows until there is no water source left, and the amplifier shuts down. So how do you hear it = silence. If the amp doesn't have protective circuitry I assume it'll be damaged as well. It'll be the equivalent of a short.

 

[Jemplayer]

My 2 cents. I was given one on loan to try with my Summits. Lasted about 3 hours, then took it out. Was cold and thin. I thought it sounded terrible. I am amazed by this tread and the positive things said. I guess it confirms thats its all about your personal preference.

 

[georgehifi]

Search though I may, I haven't found any listening notes for MLs driven by the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170. I'm really intrigued by that integrated amp, but am having an impossible time finding a free weekend to drive to the nearest Lyngdorf dealer to hear it. Has anyone listened critically to the 2170 on a Summit or similar panel? Thanks for your thoughts!

Your ML Summit's while a very good speaker have a very steep falling impedance in the top end, even though the bass has it's own amp, the impedance comes down to around 1ohm up high, and also has a nasty -65 degree phase angel with 3ohms between 3khz to 4khz.

This is not a kind load to Class D amps and they don't like this kind of impedance and will most probably sound muted in the top end or auto turn off at higher levels.

You need linear SS amps with bi-polar output transistors (BJT) that can do good current delivery.

Cheers George

 

[tribble]

Long story short: I auditioned it, bought it, set it up at home, and it sounds FANTASTIC. A/B'd with a McIntosh MA8000 and preferred the very slightly cleaner, transparent sound of the Lyngdorf. RoomPerfect brings the frequency balance right where it should be at the listening position. The amp has no trouble playing loud to provide work music in adjacent rooms, and no trouble playing quiet while still preserving all the details. I love it to death!

When I first started my dealer audition, also on Summits, the soundstage was compressed and shrouded. I was quite surprised and worried that all of the reviews were just hype. Then, after approaching the unit and reading the small screen up close, I realized it was set to the 'bass1' voicing profile. I switched it back to neutral, the highs came back, the soundstage burst open, and I got a huge stupid grin on my face because the music sounded so freakin' good! I put in about an hour on bypass, swapped in the MA8000, listened another 45 minutes or so, swapped the TDAI2170 back in, and knew right away it was the one.

I compared the amps without RoomPerfect for the first several hours and gave the nod to the Lyngdorf, but with RP switched on, things went to another level. At first, although it was clearly a different sound, I wasn't sure it was better. But, the more I listened to it, the more I listened in to the performances, the more I missed it when it was turned off. It's quite an amazing device, and with good recordings, it hasn't failed yet to put that stupid grin back on my face no matter how long the day has been. I am thoroughly and totally pleased with it. It's the cleanest, least colored sound I've had.

Impedance curves and wattage aside, give it a listen. Make sure they calibrate the RoomPerfect while you're there; it only takes 15 or 20 minutes and the difference is substantial.

 

[Bevensee]

Long story short: I auditioned it, bought it, set it up at home, and it sounds FANTASTIC. A/B'd with a McIntosh MA8000 and preferred the very slightly cleaner, transparent sound of the Lyngdorf. RoomPerfect brings the frequency balance right where it should be at the listening position. The amp has no trouble playing loud to provide work music in adjacent rooms, and no trouble playing quiet while still preserving all the details. I love it to death!

When I first started my dealer audition, also on Summits, the soundstage was compressed and shrouded. I was quite surprised and worried that all of the reviews were just hype. Then, after approaching the unit and reading the small screen up close, I realized it was set to the 'bass1' voicing profile. I switched it back to neutral, the highs came back, the soundstage burst open, and I got a huge stupid grin on my face because the music sounded so freakin' good! I put in about an hour on bypass, swapped in the MA8000, listened another 45 minutes or so, swapped the TDAI2170 back in, and knew right away it was the one.

I compared the amps without RoomPerfect for the first several hours and gave the nod to the Lyngdorf, but with RP switched on, things went to another level. At first, although it was clearly a different sound, I wasn't sure it was better. But, the more I listened to it, the more I listened in to the performances, the more I missed it when it was turned off. It's quite an amazing device, and with good recordings, it hasn't failed yet to put that stupid grin back on my face no matter how long the day has been. I am thoroughly and totally pleased with it. It's the cleanest, least colored sound I've had.

Impedance curves and wattage aside, give it a listen. Make sure they calibrate the RoomPerfect while you're there; it only takes 15 or 20 minutes and the difference is substantial.

Reviving an old thread here, I would like to know if you still use the Lyngdorff, and if you ever experienced any problems with it.

 

[tribble]

Reviving an old thread here, I would like to know if you still use the Lyngdorff, and if you ever experienced any problems with it.

Yes, still using it with the summits and it still sounds as good as ever! No issues to date. I did a firmware update a few months after I got it without any trouble. Drove it from VA to FL so my dad could audition it on his IRS Betas in a difficult room; he bought one too. No issues driving the Betas’ planar magnetic towers. Given my limited personal experience with sample size of 2, still highly recommended.

 

[RUR]

Yes, still using it with the summits and it still sounds as good as ever! No issues to date. I did a firmware update a few months after I got it without any trouble. Drove it from VA to FL so my dad could audition it on his IRS Betas in a difficult room; he bought one too. No issues driving the Betas’ planar magnetic towers. Given my limited personal experience with sample size of 2, still highly recommended.

Hi Tribble! Glad to hear that you're still enjoying the Lyngdorf with Room Perfect. Soooo many folks continue to hold old-fashioned views on "Room correction" (actually frequency/phase/impulse response correction) - they just don't realize what modern, SotA products can do.

 

[Bevensee]

Yes, still using it with the summits and it still sounds as good as ever! No issues to date. I did a firmware update a few months after I got it without any trouble. Drove it from VA to FL so my dad could audition it on his IRS Betas in a difficult room; he bought one too. No issues driving the Betas’ planar magnetic towers. Given my limited personal experience with sample size of 2, still highly recommended.

Thanks for the update - it is very good to hear!

 

[liffy99]

Maybe a bit late to the party but I’ve had two Lyngdorf amps - the tda2200 powering a pair of Prodigies and now rge latest tda3400 running into Quad 2905s
the 3400 was a significant improvement and no issues had with either combination.

 

[Nuri58]

Hi Tribble! Glad to hear that you're still enjoying the Lyngdorf with Room Perfect. Soooo many folks continue to hold old-fashioned views on "Room correction" (actually frequency/phase/impulse response correction) - they just don't realize what modern, SotA products can do.

Agree, the issue as I see it is that purists (I used to be one) does not take into consideration how should it sound (and nobody really knows how it sounded in the studio). Moreover, two different kind of LS changes the sound in your own home without altering anything else. So what is the true sound? Therefore, why not improve the sound by removing all these effects added by your room?

 

[kkruse]

I have - besides a lot of different amps - a Lyngdorf TDAI 3400, powering the MartinLogan CLX. It works much better that all other amps, I did have the possibility to try. Especially the RoomPerfect in combination with the subwoofer alignment works with excellent result, and raises the bar to the next level, not possible without applying DSP (for fine tuning voicing) and room correction.
kr
Kim