Subwoofer

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

spkrdctr

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
188
Location
Clearwater Florida USA
I have a question. I have a small ML 700X sub in a small to medium size room. I'm amazed that once I started getting my speakers Eq'ed to flatten out the room spikes (two big ones) I then had to turn down the sub from 50% to now I have the volume on the sub at about 15%. To me that is almost nothing on the knob. But anymore and I have too much sub. I found that once you get your set up room nodes fixed fairly well, not only does the sound improve tremendously, but the the low level listening volume is much better and I don't need the sub cranked up to match the huge two room spikes I had. As usual, the single biggest and best tweaks I have made to my setup is speaker toe in/placement and leveling out the room spikes. Huge improvement over the entire sound experience. I followed Ttocs, JonFo and others on here who have dialed in their systems very well in my $2 way. For my inexpensive setup, it really seems to sound way, way above its price point. It is true (as usual) that setup is over 50% of the sound quality. The sub being turned down a lot was unexpected on my part. Anyone else find anything totally unexpected when setting up their system? Inquiring minds want to know. Plus we might get an interesting discussion going. Who knows? :)
 

Lightloopy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
316
Reaction score
146
Location
Delaware
I also dial my sub in by ear and for me, it always seems to be a "pinch". It was like that for the SL3 and now the same for the CLSII.
 

Gordon Gray

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
4,028
Reaction score
35
Location
Alto, NM
You've followed the process correctly. Optimize the speaker locations first and then add the sub. Don't worry about your initial expectations. If the current sub settings provide the correct amount of "bass reinforcement" without impacting midrange / top end clarity and blend so you can't locate the subwoofer sound, you got it right. Unfortunately, many folks want to "hear" the sub resulting in overblown bass and compromising the SQ of their system.
 

spkrdctr

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
188
Location
Clearwater Florida USA
I can never tell that I have a sub. I had to check both of my mains to make sure they were not putting out sub frequencies. It is amazing how well the ESLs blend with a sub. I have cut a lot of bass out of the ESLs and given it to the sub and it sounds very good. Plus when I turn it up every once in awhile it is not beating the crap out of the ESL woofer. So, bottom line I can run it extremely loud (why?) safely, but I do not ever listen at that volume as I like my hearing. If anyone thinks these speakers will not play LOUD, they are nuts. The issue I have now is that apartment living means I can't crank it up to 11 or the police will give me a talking too and then I will receive a very politely worded eviction notice. So, I listen in moderation which is where I'm happiest anyway. I want to keep my hearing!
 

AbeK

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
5
Location
Sydney Australia
I have a question. I have a small ML 700X sub in a small to medium size room. I'm amazed that once I started getting my speakers Eq'ed to flatten out the room spikes (two big ones) I then had to turn down the sub from 50% to now I have the volume on the sub at about 15%. To me that is almost nothing on the knob. But anymore and I have too much sub. I found that once you get your set up room nodes fixed fairly well, not only does the sound improve tremendously, but the the low level listening volume is much better and I don't need the sub cranked up to match the huge two room spikes I had. As usual, the single biggest and best tweaks I have made to my setup is speaker toe in/placement and leveling out the room spikes. Huge improvement over the entire sound experience. I followed Ttocs, JonFo and others on here who have dialed in their systems very well in my $2 way. For my inexpensive setup, it really seems to sound way, way above its price point. It is true (as usual) that setup is over 50% of the sound quality. The sub being turned down a lot was unexpected on my part. Anyone else find anything totally unexpected when setting up their system? Inquiring minds want to know. Plus we might get an interesting discussion going. Who knows? :)
What are you pairing the 700X Sub with for your main speakers?
 

MickyP

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
Location
uk
Greetings from UK!

(Novice question coming up...) Can I run a sub with SL3s and an 'ordinary' (MF M6), non home theatre amp? How is it connected up and, if it's a goer, any recommendations?

Thanks
 

18000rpm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
123
Reaction score
36
Location
Singapore
(Novice question coming up...) Can I run a sub with SL3s and an 'ordinary' (MF M6), non home theatre amp? How is it connected up and, if it's a goer, any recommendations?

You can, but it's complicated and depends on the available outputs of your preamp and the inputs of the subwoofer.

Any subwoofer that only has LFE input will not work so you can strike those off.

If your preamp has additional preouts and your subwoofer has left/right inputs then you can connect using those. But note both the sub and speakers will receive full range signal. Subwoofers generally have a low pass filter where you can adjust the frequency, but the speakers will still receive full range, wasting power in frequencies it is unable to play effectively.

If the subwoofer has high-level inputs you can connect the subwoofer in parallel with the speakers (ie. use 2 sets of speaker wires, one set to speakers one set to sub, both connected to the amp output). This is the preferred method as the characteristics of your amp will also reach the sub. The subwoofer doesn't actually draw any real power from the amp due to the high impedance of its inputs. But again both the sub and speakers will receive full range signal.
 

MickyP

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2018
Messages
40
Reaction score
1
Location
uk
Thank you. Does the sub need mains power too and any brand recommendations spring to mind?
 

18000rpm

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
123
Reaction score
36
Location
Singapore
All active subs (which is what you want, passive ones require an external amplifier) will require mains power. Most will auto-detect an audio signal and go to standby when not in use.

I use a Descent to complement my Prodigies but ML subwoofers are probably not the most bang for the buck. SVS and Hsu Research subwoofers used to get great reviews for being value for money although I don't know if they still are. They may also be more suited for home theater rather than music.
 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,712
Reaction score
445
Location
Big Canoe, GA
Anyone else find anything totally unexpected when setting up their system?
First, great to hear the experimentation with setup and some select EQ smoothed out the response.

My biggest surprise in the recent 5 years was the amazing benefits of the nearfield MidBass Modules I deployed. They allow me to lower my typical volume level by 3 or 4 dB, and the sound still has plenty of punch.
But it took an hour of careful measurements with REW, and fine-tuning the delay settings in the MBM channel on the DriveRack to get it just right. I used group delay and Frequency metrics to get it dialed in. MBMs demand that they be correctly time-aligned or the effect is nowhere near as effective.

I just finished hearing a gorgeous Atmos recording of Classical Piano and Orchestra, and the MBMs really add to the sense of realism for the piano (which I'm intimately familiar with).
And on movies and modern music, it is incredible. An ML system can totally rock with these.

Here is a recent shot of the MBMs without the seating in front of them when I was setting up for some system modeling with my Realizer A16. More photos in the thread linked above.

MBM_Front.jpg
 

spkrdctr

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
188
Location
Clearwater Florida USA
Jonfo, didn't the judge talk to you about getting intimately familiar with the piano? I thought you promised not to do that. I do understand getting carried away though, it happens to all of us! :)
 

JonFo

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
4,712
Reaction score
445
Location
Big Canoe, GA
Top