Stereophile Show In NYC

[aliveatfive]

Anyone from metro area going to the show? I'll be there on Friday and Sunday. Maybe we can meet and cement an NYC ML chapter!

 

[aliveatfive]

Wow! That was an overwhelming response!

 

[GregLett]

I will be there. I hope yu get this. I just saw your post. I posted also but got no response either.

 

[MiTT]

Well I'm an idiot! I was in NYC all week at a tradeshow in the Javits Center and just came back home yesterday. It wasn't until I was settling down last night that I noticed the dates for the Sterophile show on the front of the latest issue. If I would have had my wits about me a few weeks ago when I'd booked my travel I would have extended things a few days and caught the show. Would have been great to hook up with you guys.

 

[GregLett]

Well I'm an idiot! I was in NYC all week at a tradeshow in the Javits Center and just came back home yesterday. It wasn't until I was settling down last night that I noticed the dates for the Sterophile show on the front of the latest issue. If I would have had my wits about me a few weeks ago when I'd booked my travel I would have extended things a few days and caught the show. Would have been great to hook up with you guys.

Bummer is was great I won't be able to attend tomorrow, but Friday and Saturday was great.

 

[GregLett]

Some more picks.

 

[romax]

I was there today. didn't notice your post before.
Here is a summary of my impressions:

Most of the stuff was way overpriced. Most of the speakers were in the $12,000 range and up. Most of them IMO not worth anything close to that.
No speakers in the middle range. The "eyeballs" speakers (forget the brands, sorry, but if you were there you know what I mean) were not good. I was kinda surprised by the epos and the silverline bookshelf speakers. For the money they produced a decent sound.
Only exceptions were the Wilson speakers ($27,000) driven by Balanced audio Technology electronics in one room and by LAMM electronics in a different room and these other speakers (AR audio or something like that, from Canada, about $7,000) driven by Jadis electronics. These systems were truly remarkable in my opinion.
Three things that really struck me were:
- some sytems like the Haniwa speakers by kubotek (around $26,000 I believe)or the Omaha speakers sounded plain awful. I would not pay $1,000 for them! Has anyone told these guys how bad their stuff sound?!
- the amount of money that some of these "exotic" "garage" companies charge is exorbitant. Why would you ever invest that much money in a company that a couple of years down the road will not exist anymore? What do you do if a driver breaks or such?
- some really good electronics (like Oracle CD players and turntables and the VPI aries 3 and Plinius amps) were hooked up to low quality bookshelf speakers. Why would anyone do that?

In general I got the feeling that the show was geared towards the "rich man" whose cosmetic needs take priority over the acoustic ones.

Best part of the show was the room with all the LPs and CDs. Even though not a great selection, they had some good specials and no taxes.
Missed the Logans there!

 

[GregLett]

Romax,

I would have to agree with you on the "My stuff cost more than yours" angle of the show. I took a CD in today to hear it on some of the systems. The best was the Lamm driving the WATT Puppies. of course that system would set you back about 200K. The MBL was not very good and the Cabasse (eyball) was ok with my material.

Some of the small systems were actually decent, too many names to remember.
But one things four sure coming home and powering up my Logans makes me love them even more. If I got the cash tomorrow, I would have Summits for sure

 

[twich54]

Interesting perspective guys. It's one thing to go and 'drool' over what you know you'll never be able to afford, but when the cost dosen't begin to produce the sound it should, well like Greg said, makes us wanna gome home and give are Logans a hug !

It does seem odd that the MBL's were not performing up to their best, something must have been wrong with room or set-up I suppose.

 

[aliveatfive]

I tried to post this yesterday, but it did not go through. Here we go again! Warning - this will be long.

I've attended these shows for years. I've never missed a S'Phile show in NYC and I attended many before S'Phile become the major organizer. I guess I've become jaded, but these shows do not do it for me anymore. I'll say (not unequivocally) that his may be my last. Reasons for my dissatisfaction? Read on:

My Summits driven by ARC REF electronics sounded better than almost anything that I heard there. The MBL room was miserable. The sound there was bright and indistinct. I spoke to one of the exhibitors. He said that many of the rooms were bright to begin with and very difficult to equalize and sound-treat.

I began my listening when I got there at about 2:00 PM on Friday. I started at the ARC -Vandersteen room. ARC has not demoed at this show for at least 7 or 8 years. I did not care for the sound in this room. They used essentially the same electronics as I use. I thought my set-up was much better. To be honest, however, when I returned to this room about 4 hours later, the sound had improved considerably. A change in speaker placement? Additional sound control? System break-in? Who knows!

Some rooms sounded good from the get-go. Probably the best I heard was the Wilson - BAT room. They were using BAT tubes (REX and VK 150 monoblocks) to drive Watt/Puppy eights. Dynamics were there in spades as was focus and frequency neutrality. Other good rooms were Cabasse and Scaena.

The biggest surprise? That had to be the Omaha Audio room. This was a very good sounding, rather small-scale system. It consisted of a single-ended 300b powered integrated amp driving a pair of smallish bookshelf-sized speakers. Source was a tube driven cd player. I'd say this system was close to ideal for small rooms. Here's the grabber: cost of everything in that system for under 5 grand!

My greatest impression was that there was not all that much to see. On the plus side - there were mercifully small numbers of flat-screen tv panels and multi-channel audio. For pure music, I'm a fan of old-fashioned 2 channel stereo.

Needless to say, I did not go back for a second helping on Sunday. I'd already had my fill.

 

[GregLett]

I tried to post this yesterday, but it did not go through. Here we go again! Warning - this will be long.

I've attended these shows for years. I've never missed a S'Phile show in NYC and I attended many before S'Phile become the major organizer. I guess I've become jaded, but these shows do not do it for me anymore. I'll say (not unequivocally) that his may be my last. Reasons for my dissatisfaction? Read on:

My Summits driven by ARC REF electronics sounded better than almost anything that I heard there. The MBL room was miserable. The sound there was bright and indistinct. I spoke to one of the exhibitors. He said that many of the rooms were bright to begin with and very difficult to equalize and sound-treat.

I began my listening when I got there at about 2:00 PM on Friday. I started at the ARC -Vandersteen room. ARC has not demoed at this show for at least 7 or 8 years. I did not care for the sound in this room. They used essentially the same electronics as I use. I thought my set-up was much better. To be honest, however, when I returned to this room about 4 hours later, the sound had improved considerably. A change in speaker placement? Additional sound control? System break-in? Who knows!

Some rooms sounded good from the get-go. Probably the best I heard was the Wilson - BAT room. They were using BAT tubes (REX and VK 150 monoblocks) to drive Watt/Puppy eights. Dynamics were there in spades as was focus and frequency neutrality. Other good rooms were Cabasse and Scaena.

The biggest surprise? That had to be the Omaha Audio room. This was a very good sounding, rather small-scale system. It consisted of a single-ended 300b powered integrated amp driving a pair of smallish bookshelf-sized speakers. Source was a tube driven cd player. I'd say this system was close to ideal for small rooms. Here's the grabber: cost of everything in that system for under 5 grand!

My greatest impression was that there was not all that much to see. On the plus side - there were mercifully small numbers of flat-screen tv panels and multi-channel audio. For pure music, I'm a fan of old-fashioned 2 channel stereo.

Needless to say, I did not go back for a second helping on Sunday. I'd already had my fill.

Sorry we missed each other, but wow do we agree.
I like the hype so I would most likely go again. But what I learned
from the first show is that the sanely priced systems sound much
better than the over priced systems for the most part.

 

[eknuds01]

interesting!

It seems that the various rooms were major players in how these systems sound. While I have not ever been to a major stereophile show, I have listened to some really expensive gear and over the years I have learned that doubling the amount of money you pay does not double the sound quality.

The above posts seem to illustrate that point rather vividly. Improper room setups and mismatched components will always take a back seat to a system that is often significantly cheaper and properly broken in.

 

[aliveatfive]

It seems that the various rooms were major players in how these systems sound. While I have not ever been to a major stereophile show, I have listened to some really expensive gear and over the years I have learned that doubling the amount of money you pay does not double the sound quality.

The above posts seem to illustrate that point rather vividly. Improper room setups and mismatched components will always take a back seat to a system that is often significantly cheaper and properly broken in.

I don't know if the rooms are the problem, the gear itself, or the time factor. When you are setting up for a show that only lasts for 3 days, I imagine there are many problems. As I've also found at auto shows, your best bet is to go to a dealer who has a good deal of experience with the product in which you are interested. Shows are an extravaganza in their own right, but ultimately margarine and not butter.

 

[romax]

... makes us wanna gome home and give are Logans a hug !...

Very true! Out of the whole show I'd have taken only the Wilsons over my Ascent i's driven by Rotel. Still, an interesting experience. I'd go again.

I'd have liked to see the speakers audition workshop. Anybody got to see it?

 

[Joey_V]

A lot of negatives.....

Remember guys, the room plays a big role. Your systems may sound better because you've tweaked them for so long, while they probably had to plop the MBLs onto the space with not much leeway for tweaks.

Just food for thought... it's probably not best to dismiss something too quickly.

My dos cents.

 

[lugano]

A really tiny video coverage, here:

http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm...7&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032118/&fg=

and some nice eye candy, here:

http://www.pbase.com/nnicot/he_2007&page=all


However, I second the "way too overpriced stuff for the sound it offers" opinions.

 

[romax]

A lot of negatives.....

Remember guys, the room plays a big role. Your systems may sound better because you've tweaked them for so long, while they probably had to plop the MBLs onto the space with not much leeway for tweaks.

Just food for thought... it's probably not best to dismiss something too quickly.

My dos cents.

I thought of that. It certainly is true. However, my room at home is not any better than what they had in those hotel rooms for the most part.

 

[lugano]

I don't think that they just threw some equipment and cables in these rooms.

I've seen a lot of panel absorbers in the various pictures. Strategically placed artificial plants, too. In one picture they even had the hallograph sound optimizers from Shakti innovations (probably the last piece of voodoo I'd ever buy, even if I won at the lottery - $1000 for that is really offending me).

 

[GregLett]

Hey when you walk into a room with 100K worth of equipment you expect to hear good sound. As the host (and expert) you need to do what ever you have to to make it sound good. It doesn't hold well for the ultra high end when systems costing far far less sound a whole lot better.

My crazy buddy purchased the Jadis int amp on Sunday

 

[Sambob2]

In general I got the feeling that the show was geared towards the "rich man" whose cosmetic needs take priority over the acoustic ones.

I have to consider that most, not all, people that have the money to afford the most expensive equipment usually hire an audio salon or contractor to do all the shopping, building, and construction for them. Typically there are not many rich people who would even step foot into a show like this to "window shop". However there are some highly educated well paid people in our community who do know the ins and outs and do have a good sense for the industry. Count me out of that group, I work hard for my money and it could take a long time to come up with enough "luxury" money to go out and spend it on a very good piece of gear. In my case I'm talking 3-5K on a preamp, 5K for an amplifier, 5K on a pair of main speakers, 2 -3K on a source all on the max side. Bias those amounts up or down 1 - 2K depending on others thoughts about what is considered luxury money. Outside that diminishing returns is exactly that...I want to be able to tap my foot and get lost in the music while keeping my bank account for other things. Thank goodness for the used market (for some of that equipment).

The last time I went to the NYC show, room after room, I was taken back by the high cost for most of the equipment as well. That is why I have not returned. Yes, I do think it is nice to see and drool over high end equipment that has the internals to prove the performance as well as the research and development to justify the cost, but I prefer to see and purchase trickle down technology in a more affordable package. While that statement can sound contradictory, what I am trying to imply is that I would prefer to see the companies’ midstream, more affordable segment rather than their flagship models. I can't handle too many more over $20K pieces of audio equipment adorning my audio magazines anymore...it's not where my dollars are going to be spent. Occasionally I do like to read thru and find out what all the hype is over but it is short lived when I return to earth and realize the cost.

Like I said, the larger portion audience that can afford this equipment is not going to pick up these magazines and read all about it. They will hire a professional to do all the research and work for them...so what’s the point?

On another note, the rooms are a huge part of the sound…only close listening will let you hear the actual system.

Sam