garmtz
Well-known member
ovature said:Maybe we simply have a passion for MartinLogan?LOGANLOVE said:
These reactions are unneccessary and unwanted.
STAGE!!! is up on Martin Logan website!!!
- Thread starter LOGANLOVE
- Start date
Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:
O
ovature
Guest
well they are my reactions and I don't need you censoring me. I like the product too, but not the new stuff, and I'm certainly not going to feed the monster EGO of ML by sucking up to them on a website
garmtz
Well-known member
Then give your opinion without suggesting that we are on the 'ML payroll'... A forum should be a learning experience. I haven't learned anything from your comments, so please look at yourself.ovature said:
I welcome a serious comparision of old to new stuff, one without any bashing of equipment or forum members.ovature said:
Example:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=1773&highlight=prodigy
Last edited:
ovature said:
Sorry to hear you don't like the new M/L's, I knew there was a reason I couldn't sleep last nite. On a more serious note, being a owner of one of the "newer pieces of junk" that you descibe I like to spend my time listening to great music being produced through my Vantage's rather that trying to "peel the venner off", obviously your Mommy and Daddy didn't give you enough playtime in your sandbox.
mapmustang
Well-known member
The press release mentions wall mounting, but does anyone know if ceiling mounting would be possible with the included mount? If not was it possible with the theater? From first look I definitely like the look of the theater better. It had a larger, more powerful look to it.
Wall mounted speakers, typically need to be wall mounted else certain frequencies are not reinforced as intended.mapmustang said:
Putting a non-wall mounted speaker on the wall (or book shelf) can reinforce the wrong frequencies.
I suppose there could be different internal cross-overs depending on which terminals you hook up to in the back, like my little M&K home theater speakers have.
I don't want to guess and get anyone excited, just shooting off the hip about possibilities.
roberto
Well-known member
We don't have to ofend to say if we like a product or not...
Hello. You can like or dislike new products. You have the right for that. But I'm going to say why I do like the new Summits/Vantage:
1) They cannot flex. XStat's ultra-rigid aluminum AirFrame firmly anchors the transducer's working elements – stators and diaphragm – around their periphery, while ClearSpar™ spacers stiffen the assembly further across its width.
2) ClearSpars enable precise, consistent tensioning of the Vacuum Bonded diaphragm without obstructing the floating, see-through look that is the visual hallmark of MartinLogan electrostats.
3) Advanced MicroPerf stator technology gives MartinLogan's latest-generation CLS electrostatic transducer almost twice as much exposed diaphragm surface as a traditional electrostatic panel of the same size. This dramatic increase in effective radiating area translates to higher efficiency and an even more effortless, unlimited dynamic presentation.
4) The panels are secured to speaker cabinets using MartinLogan's AirFrame technology. AirFrames, manufactured from aerospace-grade billet and extruded aluminum alloy, make the panels extremely rigid without obstructing playable surface area or interfering with their dipole sound radiation.
5) By eliminating cone flexure, aluminum diaphragms help the advanced-technology woofers achieve the very low distortion necessary for proper blending with electrostatic panels.
6) Vodjko crossovers are hand grade, Vodjko is an engineer of ML team.
7) 25 Hz and 50 Hz at the Summits and 35 Hz to the Vantage, are controls for room acoustics to tune the bass of the room.
8) With the new sensitivity, we can use more low power amplifiers, that we could not be used before, due to low wattage. Now we can! we can choose more good sounding amps.
There are more reasons why I like them better than other ML products, but this also does not measn that I don't like the older goods. NO. ML sound is fantastic, even the first CLS (which I still have a pair) and the new generation products.
As I said before, this is my liking, and not necessary yours, but all what I say is: trust your ears, enjoy your sound and happy listening,
pura vida,
Roberto.
Hello. You can like or dislike new products. You have the right for that. But I'm going to say why I do like the new Summits/Vantage:
1) They cannot flex. XStat's ultra-rigid aluminum AirFrame firmly anchors the transducer's working elements – stators and diaphragm – around their periphery, while ClearSpar™ spacers stiffen the assembly further across its width.
2) ClearSpars enable precise, consistent tensioning of the Vacuum Bonded diaphragm without obstructing the floating, see-through look that is the visual hallmark of MartinLogan electrostats.
3) Advanced MicroPerf stator technology gives MartinLogan's latest-generation CLS electrostatic transducer almost twice as much exposed diaphragm surface as a traditional electrostatic panel of the same size. This dramatic increase in effective radiating area translates to higher efficiency and an even more effortless, unlimited dynamic presentation.
4) The panels are secured to speaker cabinets using MartinLogan's AirFrame technology. AirFrames, manufactured from aerospace-grade billet and extruded aluminum alloy, make the panels extremely rigid without obstructing playable surface area or interfering with their dipole sound radiation.
5) By eliminating cone flexure, aluminum diaphragms help the advanced-technology woofers achieve the very low distortion necessary for proper blending with electrostatic panels.
6) Vodjko crossovers are hand grade, Vodjko is an engineer of ML team.
7) 25 Hz and 50 Hz at the Summits and 35 Hz to the Vantage, are controls for room acoustics to tune the bass of the room.
8) With the new sensitivity, we can use more low power amplifiers, that we could not be used before, due to low wattage. Now we can! we can choose more good sounding amps.
There are more reasons why I like them better than other ML products, but this also does not measn that I don't like the older goods. NO. ML sound is fantastic, even the first CLS (which I still have a pair) and the new generation products.
As I said before, this is my liking, and not necessary yours, but all what I say is: trust your ears, enjoy your sound and happy listening,
pura vida,
Roberto.
garmtz
Well-known member
Statman said:
I do not agree. I think it is quite beautiful, just like I found the slender Summit/Vantage more beautiful than the bulky Odyssey/Prodigy... The Theater i is a BRILLIANT center, but I think the Stage is more subtle in design.
How they compare sound-wise, I will soon find out, I have one on order right now. But that's because I am a dealer and need to have the current product line-up.
Will let everyone know how it sounds once it's there and run-in! I will then also post my system in the members area!
Well said Roberto !!!!! On the subject of the "looks" of the new Stage, well I wasn't thrilled with the Summitt's / Vantage when I first saw them in print either. Once I saw them in person and auditioned them it was love at first listen !!
So lets see the Stage and listen to it and go from there.
So lets see the Stage and listen to it and go from there.
Joey_V
Well-known member
ovature said:
Sucking up to them???
We get shafted every time a product is unveiled, we're always the last to know. We dont get discounts nor do we get special treatment. ML doesnt care an extra ounce about us members, nor should they. This club is because we like their speakers for what they are, no suck up necessary.
Joey_V
Well-known member
SugarMedia said:
All of Ovature's posts have been all negative lately. Maybe it's just me.
O
ovature
Guest
It just you! Just trying to create a little drama and have some fun!
O
ovature
Guest
Then why do you buy a product when you know you are getting screwed. Let them choke on their garbage until they are willing to sell their goods at a fair price. Most of this junk is way overpriced!Joey_V said:
Statman
Well-known member
garmtz said:
That's fine and I respect your opinion. Each person on this forum has different tastes otherwise we would be listening to the same pre-amp and amp combo? I just cannot get past the boxy look that they new owners of the company have come out with. You and I both know that if Gayle Sanders was still running the company he would have not released this speaker without further development. It's too boxy IMHO. I'm still betting that it won't sound leaps and bounds better than the Theater i, I have to add that yes I own the Theater i and have the funds to change right now if I needed to but this center channel will never sit in my room. So if you want to flame away go ahead.
As far as the "veneer peeling" comment that's his (ovature) right to state that. I had to replace a board in my Odyssey awhile back and was very disappointed once I removed the rear driver and got to the board itself. The speaker is not what I expected for build quality at all for the price they charged for it. I do like the Summits now I didn't at first as attyonline stated. But the Summit isn't two squared boxes with a stat panel in the middle it has some character. I've owned ML since 1989 whan I sat down at Christopher Hansen LTD with Dan D' Agostino of Krell who was out here visiting Chris Hansen's store that day I bought the Sequel II"s. He even tweaked them in the room for me while listening. The point I'm trying to make is, I still love my Logans but the newer stuff is in some ways better sounding (panels and electronics) but cheaper in overall build quality, at least the cabinetry?
I'm still torn between buying Summits or switching to Wilson Sophia 2's. Yes I know Wilson's are hyped and overpriced right?
Better tell that to the mixing studios that still use them?
O
ovature
Guest
Listen to how most recording sound and besides most studios are using nearfield monitors anyway, not WilsonsStatman said:That's fine and I respect your opinion. Each person on this forum has different tastes otherwise we would be listening to the same pre-amp and amp combo? I just cannot get past the boxy look that they new owners of the company have come out with. You and I both know that if Gayle Sanders was still running the company he would have not released this speaker without further development. It's too boxy IMHO. I'm still betting that it won't sound leaps and bounds better than the Theater i, I have to add that yes I own the Theater i and have the funds to change right now if I needed to but this center channel will never sit in my room. So if you want to flame away go ahead.
As far as the "veneer peeling" comment that's his (ovature) right to state that. I had to replace a board in my Odyssey awhile back and was very disappointed once I removed the rear driver and got to the board itself. The speaker is not what I expected for build quality at all for the price they charged for it. I do like the Summits now I didn't at first as attyonline stated. But the Summit isn't two squared boxes with a stat panel in the middle it has some character. I've owned ML since 1989 whan I sat down at Christopher Hansen LTD with Dan D' Agostino of Krell who was out here visiting Chris Hansen's store that day I bought the Sequel II"s. He even tweaked them in the room for me while listening. The point I'm trying to make is, I still love my Logans but the newer stuff is in some ways better sounding (panels and electronics) but cheaper in overall build quality, at least the cabinetry?
I'm still torn between buying Summits or switching to Wilson Sophia 2's. Yes I know Wilson's are hyped and overpriced right?
I owned the original Sophias. Even the new ones will not do vocals or detail like a ML. The build quality is terrble and cheap on the new line(of ML) IMO and it's hyped up on the high end which accentuates bad recordings. The vantage and Vista looks like at was designed by a guy while he was sitting on the toilet. It's a panel bolted on to an ugly box with paper thin veneer. ML is trying to rip us off!!!
Last edited:
attyonline
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 350
- Reaction score
- 1
Troll time!
This by definition makes you a troll.ovature said:
Now if you want to alter the course you are on, then start an intelligent thread comparing old to new products. Topics may include: Industrial Design (looks), Cost (Todays dollars), Performance (sound), and the ability to be driven, which may incude room size/acoustics.
Sample thread:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1916&highlight=prodigy
Look for the pictures I posted in the link above - made my point in that thread - use your ears and EYES and decide for yourself.
That said, we get into these debates all the time in the Porsche forums. The old "raw feel" of the 1960's and 1970's vs 1980's and 1990's vs water pumpers. We typically agree that there are differences and celebrate those differences.
Last edited:
There are other speakers with better build quality than ML and priced lower. One example are Sonus faber speakers. Take a look at the Cremonas. They're a beautiful speaker and the cabinet work is exceptional. Fine Italian craftsmanship at work here. However, the sound quality was not as good as the Summits or even the lower priced Vantage in my opinion. The main differnce being the bass was not as deep and tight and it was not as detailed as most E-stat speakers.
The new line of ML speakers could be improved in the cabinetry area. I like they way they did the aluminum framed electrostat panel but I would like to see hand built cabinets from solid wood with rounded corners instead of the veneer cabinets with sharp corners. However, the costs of the speaker would then have to increase significantly. I agree that $3.5k, $5k or $10k is a lot for a speaker but I don't think there is anything that can beat these models in those price ranges for full-range sound quality.
Statman
Well-known member
I love panel/planar speakers. Owned Magnepan MG IIb's and then Acoustat 2+2's and then Martin Logans. I guess I'm partial to that type of sound. I just don't want to see ML start to cut more and more corners to save on production costs.
