Speakers in Cabinet... Couple Questions

[newoski]

Hi Guys,

So first, thanks again for all the help, thus far, as I've bite off a bit more than I anticipated upgrading my TV, receiver and speakers all in one go. My basement setup is not ideal and I currently don't have the option to wall mount. I have my new MartinLogan 30i and 35xti speakers in my media center cabinets/shelves (I also have MartinLogan surrounds and 800x sub). Despite this unideal setup, it sounds pretty great most of the time. Every so often, it'll sound somewhat hollow and I'm wondering if it's resonant frequencies with the cabinet.

1. What would be the best way to actually test and determine what kind of resonance I'm actually experiencing? Or not experiencing?
2. I've seen posts recommending putting a thin piece of rubber underneath the speakers to help with resonance. The old posts I've found link to products that no longer exist. Could anyone recommend what kind of rubber product I should get to put under the speakers?
3. I know I want to have the speakers as close to the front of the cabinet to give them the most projection out into the room without hitting the sides, however, do I also want to keep the edges of the speaker from actually making physical contact with the edges of the cabinet? Would that reduce resonance, at all?
4. Despite being a smaller speaker, would I do better to downgrade my 35xti to the 15xti which would have a bit more open air? If so, should I downgrade the 30i to the 8i for the center?

This photo was clearly a WIP as I was replacing my old speakers. Please forgive the chaos

 

[twich54]

based on your picture alone, while it might be ok for HT it's a long way from ideal for 2 channel music listening. Those speakers recessed in a cabinet can in no way sound good. IMO they need to be removed, put on proper stands, out in front of cabinet with tweeters at ear level. For optimum listening you want nothing between the speakers and your ears as well as nothing between L/R speakers.

I know you said it sounds 'pretty great' but trust me you've yet to discover what 'great sound' really is !

 

[Robert D]

I would at least get some speaker stands for the left and right channel speakers. Getting them out in the air would solve a lot of problems as well as give you much better imaging because they are farther apart. Do you not have enough space in the room?

If they must remain where they are, then I think your idea of using rubber sheets underneath them is a good idea. One thing I'd worry about though is the rubber damaging the finish on the speakers and cabinet. Some rubber does that especially if it gets warm.

I wonder if you could use material like the old dynamat. They used that for car stereos. You could check with local car stereo place to see what they use.

 

[ttocs]

^^^^ What he said about rubber and possible damage to the surface below.

I've gone the route you are currently dealing with. It was convenient and attractive to put a center speaker in the cabinet, alllllll the way forward, but the cabinet still was a problem. Then I put it on top of the cabinet. Then raised it up using as non-resonant material as possible.

Then got rid of the cabinet and put it on a petrified tree stump as a speaker stand. This was the best. I gave my really nice cabinet away.

Now that speaker is mounted on the wall above the display, and it's not quite as good as on its own stand, splitting hairs here, but it's waaaaaaay better for second row movie watchers.

 

[Robert D]

^^^^ What he said about rubber and possible damage to the surface below.

I've gone the route you are currently dealing with. It was convenient and attractive to put a center speaker in the cabinet, alllllll the way forward, but the cabinet still was a problem. Then I put it on top of the cabinet. Then raised it up using as non-resonant material as possible.

Then got rid of the cabinet and put it on a petrified tree stump as a speaker stand. This was the best. I gave my really nice cabinet away.

Now that speaker is mounted on the wall above the display, and it's not quite as good as on its own stand, splitting hairs here, but it's waaaaaaay better for second row movie watchers.

Speaking about getting rid of cabinets, I need to someday get rid of my entertainment center I have in my family room/home theater. Im stuck using no bigger than a 55 inch tv because of it. The cabinet is very nice, Arhaus Furniture, but we bought it back when a 55 inch tv was huge. I will probably end up just giving it away at some point unless I can figure out another use for it.

 

[spkrdctr]

Robert, the 85 inch TVs are dropping rapidly in price. They have awesome quality performance.

 

[ttocs]

Speaking about getting rid of cabinets, I need to someday get rid of my entertainment center I have in my family room/home theater. Im stuck using no bigger than a 55 inch tv because of it. The cabinet is very nice, Arhaus Furniture, but we bought it back when a 55 inch tv was huge. I will probably end up just giving it away at some point unless I can figure out another use for it.

Mine was in the basement for almost 4 years and I was concerned that it would be damaged and of no use to anyone. So when I had the opportunity to unload some useful items I was no longer needing, washer/dryer, chase lounge, industrial-modern cabinet, and some other items I don't remember, I added in the BDI audio cabinet as well. This opened up a lot of space in the basement.

 

[spkrdctr]

Newoski, I looked at your setup and the speakers you have in it. There is only one problem with it as it now sits. That is your L/R/C are all ported speakers. Putting ported speakers into a cabinet like you have is hard on the sound quality. Those bass ports are dumping into the enclosed cabinet and causing some mayhem. You are cutting the bass response in all three speakers most likely from, I'm guessing 100hz and lower. I say you can make up for it with good subwoofer blending. I believe if you put your L/R speakers on stands so you can adjust the toe in, you will radically improve your sound. I would not change out any of your speakers as they are fantastic and should sound very good if positioned for the room.

 

[Robert D]

Newoski, I looked at your setup and the speakers you have in it. There is only one problem with it as it now sits. That is your L/R/C are all ported speakers. Putting ported speakers into a cabinet like you have is hard on the sound quality. Those bass ports are dumping into the enclosed cabinet and causing some mayhem. You are cutting the bass response in all three speakers most likely from, I'm guessing 100hz and lower. I say you can make up for it with good subwoofer blending. I believe if you put your L/R speakers on stands so you can adjust the toe in, you will radically improve your sound. I would not change out any of your speakers as they are fantastic and should sound very good if positioned for the room.

Is the center ported as well? Maybe there is a way to have it on top of the cabinet and either under the TV or in front of it. I have thought of building a wooden platform that would fit over top of the center channel speaker and act as a platform for the TV to sit on.

 

[newoski]

The only thing I can think of doing would essentially be to use a "table", not a media entertainment center stand. I would then put the TV on. Something like this... (though obviously adjusting the speakers so the tweakers are a bit higher)

 

[user 49430]

Hi there,

to test your resonances you can use a test CD like this Test CD by Audio Test or better still, get yourself a signal generator app like ‎Audio Function Generator PRO. But yeah, as others have stated above, you can run the tests but the left and right speakers would need to be on stands to improve the situation. I've learned the hard way that not only speakers in cabinets, but cabinets altogether are creating all kinds of problems best solved with a rack or table.

 

[newoski]

Rack or table? What do you mean?

(Moving towards wall mounting TV. Evaluating best options for speaker placement/stands etc)

 

[user 49430]

Rack or table? What do you mean?

(Moving towards wall mounting TV. Evaluating best options for speaker placement/stands etc)

The best thing would be to remove the cabinet altogether and replace it with an open shelved hifi rack, or a table if you can fit everything on a single level. Basically you don't want a piece of furniture that has air volumes with five walls around it which resonate like the air in a guitar body. Then put the speakers on stands. I think you might be surprised with the result. Get a sense what that sounds like you could remove the cabinet temporarily, put he speakers on a pair of chairs on something similar, all the electronics on the floor, and give that a listen.

 

[Robert D]

The lowest cost option i think would be to buy stands for your front speakers and mount the TV on the wall. Then you could place your center channel speaker on top of the cabinet, where your TV sits now.

So you'd only have to buy two stands and the TV mount for the wall. That's what I would do.

 

[newoski]

The lowest cost option i think would be to buy stands for your front speakers and mount the TV on the wall. Then you could place your center channel speaker on top of the cabinet, where your TV sits now.

So you'd only have to buy two stands and the TV mount for the wall. That's what I would do.

I'll need a new smaller media chest ifbibgi that route. The current one takes up the full width of that wall. Then there is a 6" jut out and the wall continues. Opposite side is end of wall with stairs on backside going up.


Regarding new stands/table... Do I want one single level for the fronts and center, or do I want the speakers positioned so the tweeters are all ear level? Which would involve setting the left/rights lower than the center

 

[ttocs]

I bought a computer desk on sale for $150 with a rollout shelf. Nice and open below. I cut the legs to lower it.

I'm in the midst of a major rewiring so things aren't back together quite yet.

 

[user 49430]

I'll need a new smaller media chest ifbibgi that route. The current one takes up the full width of that wall. Then there is a 6" jut out and the wall continues. Opposite side is end of wall with stairs on backside going up.


Regarding new stands/table... Do I want one single level for the fronts and center, or do I want the speakers positioned so the tweeters are all ear level? Which would involve setting the left/rights lower than the center

Tweeters on ear height is good, but I would guess that compared to getting the speakers out of the cabinet, the difference of moving the speakers a few inches up or down is pretty small. The main thing is to remove the speakers from the internal compartments of the cabinet. Putting the speakers on top of the cabinet and mounting the TV to the wall if required would make a big improvement.

 

[Robert D]

I'll need a new smaller media chest ifbibgi that route. The current one takes up the full width of that wall. Then there is a 6" jut out and the wall continues. Opposite side is end of wall with stairs on backside going up.


Regarding new stands/table... Do I want one single level for the fronts and center, or do I want the speakers positioned so the tweeters are all ear level? Which would involve setting the left/rights lower than the center

I think a good picture taken farther back showing that whole area would help to visualize.

 

[twich54]

Regarding new stands/table... Do I want one single level for the fronts and center, or do I want the speakers positioned so the tweeters are all ear level? Which would involve setting the left/rights lower than the center

What is your primary interest / goal, TV/HT, I assume ? Will there be any music listening done ?
Regardless , solutions to your problem have been given, get rid of the cabinet, do your best to position tweeters at ear level and if possible bring L / R speakers out some, more important for music than HT

 

[ATK]

Speakers should NEVER be in a cabinet like that. End of story. Until you willing to get them out an on stands and away from the walls you’ll never experience what they are capable of.